Hybrid Classes...Anybody seen a good one lately?

I jest as i don't feel the Hybrid's are very good. But I do have a serious question. Has anybody played one longterm or in a longer campaign at least? I'm curious on peoples thoughts about them, either how fun they are or how effective they are? It seems to me that they took the nerf bat to each class and turned them all into the 3.5e bard...they do a little of everything, but nothing at all like you want them to and therefore they become less effective at everything they try to do.

Now, I understand the point was to keep them from being too powerful, which is why they limited or eliminated certain class features from the hybrid build. I understand all this and am only curious as to how the hybrid class has been received by others who have actually played one.

My group is anticipating playing a short campaign where we all have to play hybrid's. I'm leaning towards Fighter/Runepriest, Paladin/Cleric or Avenger/Invoker myself.

Thanks and happy hunting!

I haven't bothered playing a hybrid myself; too much complexity. But while just randomly shoving two hybrids togeter will give you someone who can pinch hit in one of two roles but isn't that great in either, there are plenty of hybrid combinations that are more than the sum of their parts.

Paladin/Warlock has feats that are tailor made for the combination. D10s for curse damage once you're marked and cursed the same critter; you're going to generally lock a target down and kill it with warlock powers, with paladin powers giving you extra choices for attacks with your weapon.

Warlock/Wizard isn't bad either (Infernal or Vestige or Staff Wizard or Summoner -- Con/Int pair -- or Illusionist/Cha Warlock, for that matter); use warlock for single target damage and debuffs and wizard when you need to lock down a nest of enemies or clear out minions.

Ideally, you want:

Either a pair of stats that both classes love (wizard/invoker, Bard/Cleric) or a single primary stat shared by both classes.
Only one (at most) class with riders on attacks (which will be your primary attack class). If there's something good you're doing with the other class, it should be situational, so you can do the situational thing some of the time and the
At least one class should do something good with minor actions. (so you can act as both classes all the time, not 50/50.
Weapon/Implement compatability (if necessary, with a feat) -- note that you get some of this for free with the Hybrid rules, but you're on your own for weapons and to an extent, weapliments.
Some cool bit of extra synergy you're getting for the pairing (like the Crimson Fire feat for Warlock/Paladins -- though some of these are less tacked on).

I think the best hybrid combos are classes that mesh well stat-wise, and have powers that complement each other without being too similar. If they're too close, then you're just going to notice the hybrid shortcomings rather than any new synergy. Also, the implement-sharing bit of the hybrid rules is one of the very unique things about hybrids, and I think a lot of good combos make use of it.

The Paladin/Warlock is a good example of this. It's already fun to use a holy symbol for Warlock powers, but the classes mesh well without overlap: Warlocks are great at single-target status effects while Paladins are the best single-target lockdown defenders. Put them together and you get a character who can shut down solos hard.

Avenger/Invoker is interesting and has a lot of the same up-sides as the Paladin/Warlock, but it might take a bit more work to pull off. The Avenger half needs to engage in melee against a single foe, whereas many Invoker powers are about hitting a lot of targets, so the synergy might be tricky. On the other hand, the most obvious build (Wis/Int) is one where both classes are strongly discouraging targets from clumping together, so an Avenger/Invoker hybrid might be awesome at breaking up formations.

IMO the Paladin/Cleric would not be such a great choice. There are already warpriest Cleric builds and "healer" Paladin builds for single-class characters, so I don't see how a hybrid does much that's new. The two classes already share a lot of characteristics.

Fighter/Runepriest sounds pretty awesome to me. If you take Rune Master as your Hybrid Talent option, you're almost as good as a straight Runepriest, except now you've got some Fighter hit points, martial weapons, marking, and free access to all those wonderful high-damage Fighter powers. You'll hit hard, do a little bit of tanking, and buff all your allies while doing it.

Leader hybrids dont seem to work too well IMO, they lose their encounter healing ability which ties into a lot of their other stuff. Although I had a great Half-Orc Ranger/Monk combo that was going to be fun. Not great defense, but super solid offense.

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 11
Half-Orc, Monk|Ranger, Paragon Hybrid
Monastic Tradition (Hybrid): Stone Fist (Hybrid)
Hybrid Monk: Hybrid Monk Reflex
Hybrid Ranger: Hybrid Ranger Reflex
Hybrid Talent: Ranger Fighting Style
Ranger Fighting Style: Two-Blade Fighting Style (Hybrid)
Paragon Hybrid Talent: Unarmored Defense

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 21, Con 13, Dex 21, Int 9, Wis 13, Cha 11.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 12, Dex 16, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 10.


AC: 28 Fort: 22 Reflex: 25 Will: 19
HP: 85 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 21

TRAINED SKILLS
Athletics +17, Nature +11, Stealth +15, Acrobatics +17

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +4, Bluff +5, Diplomacy +5, Dungeoneering +6, Endurance +8, Heal +6, History +4, Insight +6, Intimidate +7, Perception +6, Religion +4, Streetwise +5, Thievery +10

FEATS
Level 1: Hybrid Talent
Level 2: Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 4: Two-Weapon Defense
Level 6: Weapon Focus (Axe)
Level 8: Unarmored Agility
Level 10: Weapon Proficiency (Waraxe)
Level 11: Eyes in the Back of Your Head

POWERS
Hybrid at-will 1: Twin Strike
Hybrid at-will 1: Five Storms
Hybrid encounter 1: Rising Storm
Hybrid daily 1: Harmonious Thunder
Hybrid utility 2: Archer's Stairway
Hybrid encounter 3: Thundertusk Boar Strike
Hybrid daily 5: Snarling Wolf Stance
Hybrid utility 6: Centered Defense
Hybrid encounter 7: Finishing Cut
Hybrid daily 9: Splintering Shot
Hybrid utility 10: Leap of the Heavens

ITEMS
Githweave Armor of Resistance +3, Berserker Waraxe +2, Ki Waraxe +2, Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier), Necklace of Keys +2, Viper Belt (heroic tier), Hedge Wizard's Gloves (heroic tier), Quickling Boots (heroic tier)
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

Otterscrubber said:

Leader hybrids dont seem to work too well IMO, they lose their encounter healing ability which ties into a lot of their other stuff.

Click to expand...

They still get the default healing, albeit only once per encounter, not twice. That makes them about half as good a healer as a straight cleric/bard/whatever, which is where it should be. If they pair two leader classes together, you can heal twice per encounter, just like a straight leader, albeit with some more versatility. (And without the 16th level bump to 3/encounter.)


Some hybrids give up very little or find combinations that are better than their constituent parts. Sorcerers give up very little when hybridizing, for example. And Warlock + Defender class can be very effective, as the warlock powers disincentivize attacking you but the mark hurts them if they hit anyone else. (I think I prefer Conlock + Warden over Chalock and Cha Paladin, but either would work. Battlemind might work as well.)

The classic "more than the sum of its parts" hybrid is a rogue|ranger that takes a lot of free/minor/immediate action attacks so that it can Sneak attack and Hunter's Quarry every round. The same principle could be used on other combos: a ranger|fighter could use a minor action attack to HQ and their standard to mark, for example.

I really like swordmage/warlock.

Fighter/other defender looks like it could be viable (focus on what fighter gains, rather than what the other loses).

The Warden/Rogue (Str/Dex) I saw was not bad actually.

I like the Genasi (Assault) Swordmage/Barbarian. Nab all the interrupts/reactions (like Curtain of Steel and Dimensional Vortex) and attack with Howling Strike and Greenflame Blade or Booming Blade with White Lotus Riposte. Fullblade for accuracy and skip on Warding, at least until Paragon.

Might as well get Barbarian Agility instead of Warding, if you're going to wait til Paragon.

Yep, I should have written that but thought it was implied.

Generally swordmage and any compatible controller or striker class like wizard or warlock (pretty much any other arcane class actually) works VERY well. Many people believe swordmage is pretty much broken as a hybrid. Warding is essentially 100% functional for all tactical intents and purposes and adding in any of these other classes basically gives you something better than a standard swordmage, or so the reasoning goes.