D&D 5E The 5th edition PHB: Sorry but when it comes to functionality, it deserves a 'one star' rating.

Halivar

First Post
No offense but I think your standards are a bit low if you think that's how good it could get.
It's the "no offense" that really softens the insult here. Your opinion is subjective, and it's one I disagree with. I want (no, NEED) the spells to be in alphabetical order because as a DM I'm going to be looking at them more than players; who generally look at them when it's time to level or they obtain a new scroll.
 

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evilbob

Explorer
Spells were the most problematic. When I first saw them my initial thought was that this was an excuse to sell us on-line things or spell cards or something. I mean not having lists that include things like school and ritual or not is actively annoying.

I largely agree with the OP on skills and tools. It's not horrible (other than Stealth), but it does make things hard to find. And the tools are, in many cases, poorly defined.

I also found the races thing confusing initially. But got past it pretty quickly. Not what I'd have done, but seems reasonable.

Weapons are fine IMO.
Pretty much agree point-for-point, except I believed the poor spell listing was more about keeping the page count low and the wording as simple as possible. All those extra details are good for reference, but might be confusing at a glance. But in the end, they should have included them - the "everything is just one big list" method is really, really terrible.
 

billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him)
Yep. It follows the natural progression of a character, from birth (race), earlier life (background), then on to the adventuring career (class). :)

Maybe, but the book currently follows the logical progression of the rule-oriented character builder. Race -> Class -> flexible elements to tie things together and flesh out the character. Which is better depends more on your orientation toward making characters than any objective standard.
 

jodyjohnson

Adventurer

So the race section should be 'alphabetical' instead of 'by category'.

But the weapon and spell sections should be 'by category' instead of 'alphabetical' "like a normal person".

Section X should be formatted for 'a normal person'. But Section Y should be formatted the way I want it (apparently like a 'not normal' person would want it). Choose X and Y by case.
 
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billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him)
But in the end, they should have included them - the "everything is just one big list" method is really, really terrible.

I disagree with that. Let's think about seeking information at game time in a step by step fashion. We'll assume the step of finding the section of the book that has the spell descriptions because that's common to all organizational methods and fairly trivial.

Organized by class, then level, then alphabetically
1. Find the appropriate class section in the spell list for the class
2. Find the appropriate level section in the class list by level
3. Find the specific spell in a relatively small alpha section

Notes - this is easier for players who probably have their spells listed before them already grouped by their class and their level than it is for DMs who have to go through the additional process of identifying the PCs class and identifying the right level of the spell in question.

Organized alphabetically
1. Find the specific spell in a large alpha section

While step 3 in the former will be easier and quicker than step 1 in the latter, organizing by class and level first requires more processing of information when trying to access the information at game-time. And that's when I want the organization of the material to designed for speed of access. A single alphabetic list provides that.

I think the class/level (school) organization works well for character building because it promote browsability, which is very useful when trying to decide what selection to make at build time. But that's generally a time when efficiency of time is less important. It can afford to be a bit less browsable compared to my information need at game time.
 

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