Albert_Fish said:
well i was planning on using orcs goblinoids, beasts, magical beasts and the such...the major bad guys being vampires. This limits the players needs to penetrate DR in many cases and actually makes DR useful in every case.
About getting every feat a player wants...well i have something like 100s of feats in the book i mentioned...more choices means higher flexibility. I am getting rid of magic specifically to make combat tougher more realistic. Of course feats take away some realism and do make combat simpler but not to the level magic does..
Getting rid of magic will have effects other than making combat "tougher." Since there's very little healing without magic, it will have the effect of making it very difficult for PCs to recover after combat.
Also, since attack bonusses increase very quickly--especially if you're using levelled foes--and armor class hardly increases at all without magic, you will very quickly reach the point where there's not a whole lot of point in wearing armor since it doesn't help much. The net effect of this will be to favor characters who can deal out damage the most quickly. I think there'd be one kind of viable fighter in this nonmagical D&D system--the greatsword or greataxe wielding fighter/barbarian. Since he's going to get hit no matter what he does, the only thing to do is get used to the fact, get lots of hit points to be able to survive it and dish out damage more quickly than the other guy.
Archers might be viable as well but they tend to be dependant upon strength buffs (to get to 18) and GMW for stacking magic arrows. Without those bonusses, they won't compete with melee characters.
Dual wielders will be viable at around first and fourth level, but they usually depend upon using two magical weapons to get an edge on two handed weapon fighters. They'll still do well if they've got sneak attack but otherwise, forget it.
Sword and Shield will be a waste of time. Two points of armor class is good at first level but it depends upon other means of increasing AC to be useful at higher levels. For a clvl 8 fighter type, the difference between an 18 and a 20 AC is pretty negligable. So the sword and shield guy should ditches the shield, picks up a barbarian level and joins the ranks of the fighter/barbarian horde.
As to the feats, I'm not familiar with the sources you'll be using but there are lots of feats out there that aren't very useful--especially for characters built around a concept. For instance, the characters I'd build for a low magic game like this would either be a rogue duellist type who gets his damage out of sneak attack, a fighter/barbarian type, or a Reach version of the fighter/barbarian.
The last one is the most feat intensive but what do I need for my guisarm master? (At two feats/level)
Lvl 1 Fighter: Weapon Focus: Guisarm, Combat Reflexes, Expertise
Lvl 2 Fighter: Improved Trip, Two Handed Power Strike
Lvl 3 Barbarian:
Lvl 4 Barbarian: Dodge
Lvl 5: Fighter
Lvl 6: Fighter: Mobility, Weapon Specialization: Guisarm
Lvl 7: Fighter
Lvl 8: Fighter: Spring Attack, Improved Critical: Guisarm
Lvl 9: Fighter
Lvl 10: Fighter: Extra Rage, Whirlwind Attack
The Rest: Weapon Master
12: Power Crit
14: Power Attack?
16: Cleave?
18: Dash?
20: Even More Rage?
By that point, I have all of the feats I know of that are really advantageous for the character. Everything else--Power Attack, Cleave, Power Crit falls into the nifty but unnecessary section and unless there are a bunch of feats like Reduce Crit multiplier, Extra Damage Reduction, Extra Armor Class, Even More Super Duper Tarrasque's Toughness, etc. I don't see any that I'd really want. And that's with a very feat intensive character. If I were playing something non-feat intensive like the following, I really don't know what I'd do:
Half Orc Barbarian--too dumb for Expertise (Greatsword wielder)
Bbn1: Power Attack
Bbn 2: Cleave
Bbn 3, 4: Two Handed Power Strike
Bbn 5, 6: Weapon Focus
Bbn 7, 8: Improved Critical
Bbn 9, 10: ???
Bbn 11, 12: Power Critical
However, one thing you will notice is that at 1 feat/2 levels (or even 1 feat/level) these guys aren't going to overpower normal characters with Magic Items. The Barbarian's extra feat by 12th level and the inclusion of the overly powerful Two Handed Power Strike don't make up for the fact that a normal 12th level Barbarian would probably have a +3 flaming greatsword, Boots of Speed, a +4 Mithral Breastplate, a +4 belt of Giant Strength, +4 Bracers of Health, a ring of protection +2, and an amulet of natural armor +2 giving him an AC that can be missed on a roll of a 9 or a 10 on a primary attack, an extra attack (haste), +5 to hit and +9.5 to damage and 24 extra hit points.
You'll need to accept and adjust to the fact that the no magic PCs won't be anywhere near as powerful as normal PCs of that level or use classes from a system designed for lower magic.
you make a good point about qualifing for prestige classes. i dont know how to fix that though other than getting rid o prestige classes or requireing strict training for both feats and PrCs.
How about a new feat every two levels?
A new feat every two levels preserves the attraction of the fighter class and makes prestige classes more difficult to qualify for. However, it certainly won't balance the fact that the PCs don't have magic. If you want to do that, you'll need to do something like adopt an Armor as DR system, a wound points and vitality system, or a class system like WoT's which gives defense bonusses with level.
