D&D 5E State of D&D

Hey All,

I'm new to posting on these forums. Long time member on the D&D forums at Wizards, so guess i'm finally coming onboard with the rest of the refugees. Anyhow, forgive me if this has been discussed, but does anyone have any statistics to direct me to or article that tell us how D&D5 is doing? Sales wise, most prominently, I guess. Is it doing well? Is it in trouble? Is it popular? I know the books appearing to be doing well on Amazon, but how is the community as a whole? Are we healthy or dying? I'm hoping we, that is D&D is flourishing. As a long time player, I'm really happy with what they've done, for the most part anyway. Been running a game for a while now (actually, a couple of groups I know have been running game pretty much since 5e hit the floor).

But, I do have to express great disappointment in the anemic rate of support for the game. For all the crap that most folks seem to agree 4e was, 5e is a outstanding product, I just wish it would receive more support. Yes, 4e way overdid it, but that was all part of their marketing strategy with their "modular" system. But when you remove all the "core expansions" (ie: PHB2 and 3, DMG 2, etc.) or the class books (like Marital Power) and books like that, what is left over is a nice collection of splat books, monster manuals and adventure sites. I just think it's a shame that version of the game got so much love, the 5e doesn't. I'd love to see more adventure sites (like Gloomgrought, Hammerfast and Vor Rukoth) or settings books, like the Manual of the Plane, and Shadowfell or adventure sources like Threats to Nentire Vale. Or fluff books like Open Grave. Seems like 4e had it covered, but I would love to see some of that done for 5e, but it's apparently, they have no intention on this.

Maybe it's because they don't want to force books out there that some buyers might think they've bought already? I really don't know. The modules that are out do seem cool (though we've yet to run one). By the supporting books beyond those are just almost non-existent (though I think the Sword Coast book might be a step in the right direction).

I'm still picking up some of the 4e stuff just for some of the ideas and inspiration and some fluff, but I have to rework every mechanical element of all things 4e. I'd just like to see more support for 5 (especially some more monster and NPC sources).

So, any thoughts on that? Is the game doing well, or not, and is the lack of support reflective of the success of the product?

I do love 5e and want to see it succeed. Happy gaming!

Seems to be doing very well at my FLGS. The low output of books isn't an indication of performance but a conscious marketing decision that I think most customers like. And remember, it's only been a year. More will come, and I haven't even exhausted what I have yet.

Well that's good to hear Kahl, I don't visit the FLGS often enough to get a feel for that (and last time I was in there, the DM running a D&D game was running 3rd edition!!, lol).

I do understand my they have chosen the release approach they have, but I still think it's a bit slow. But then...has it really only been a year? Wow. I'll keep my hope high then ;o)

There have been several surveys given by WotC. When they put out a new survey, they give the results of the previous survey. These should give you a good notion of their internal thoughts on the state of the product. They have not released any sales data, nor do I suspect they will at any point. They've been playing things close to the vest in order to avoid feeding the internet trolls (which of course, said trolls have taken as food anyway).

As for the "lack of support," this is in response to the customers desires. We (as a whole) have requested fewer products per year, and much less crunch than previous editions, just as we have shown that we (again, as a whole) prefer Adventure Paths to shorter adventures. If this doesn't match the overall feel on the forums, realize that they/we are a bad sample, as we represent the more extreme ends of the spectrum.

We don't get data on book sales, of course, no reason we should. But if no-one at WotC gets laid off this week, we can assume they are doing okay.

Personally, I'm happy with the level of support for 5e. But then, I don't need much. For me, the fun is in making stuff up. If I get stuck for inspiration, I have boxes of stuff from old editions to pull out and reminisce over.

Making 5e backwards-compatible with old editions was the masterstroke, because it means that all the stuff on dndclassics is support for 5e and there's so much of it, that it hardly needs any more.

Ongoing support isn't vital. There's no support for Shakespeare; he hasn't published anything new for about four hundred years. But theatres still perform his plays and people still go to see them.

Okay, D&D isn't the same as Shakespeare. He didn't do dragons.

Shiroiken said:

There have been several surveys given by WotC. When they put out a new survey, they give the results of the previous survey. These should give you a good notion of their internal thoughts on the state of the product. They have not released any sales data, nor do I suspect they will at any point. They've been playing things close to the vest in order to avoid feeding the internet trolls (which of course, said trolls have taken as food anyway).

As for the "lack of support," this is in response to the customers desires. We (as a whole) have requested fewer products per year, and much less crunch than previous editions, just as we have shown that we (again, as a whole) prefer Adventure Paths to shorter adventures. If this doesn't match the overall feel on the forums, realize that they/we are a bad sample, as we represent the more extreme ends of the spectrum.

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Good points. By poling the consumers they have determined a balance that seems to be very good for their business model. For better profit margins, they want their consumer base to be eager for new material so that they will buy nearly anything they release, but they don't want to produce too little so that the consumer becomes frustrated and looks to other sources. Striking the balance insures that whatever they publish or have published by outside company partners will benefit from larger print runs and economy of scale.

Using my own experience as an example, I've bought all of the 5e products so far, plus I've spent a considerable amount on Fantasy Grounds since I DM and play all of my games online at this point in my life. If WotC released too much more, I would begin to make choices and I would not buy as much. At the rate they publish and create, I feel more comfortable purchasing their products (and...even so, I know I won't even get to use all of it because the adventure path books can keep me and my groups stimulated for 6-12 months of gaming at the rate we game).

I was a little disappointed when they shut down their own community forums because that seemed to create a dedicated space for enthusiasts and a way for consumers/fans to voice opinions that WotC could monitor if they had the staff to do that, but I guess they can monitor public opinion through this forum and other channels if they decide to devote the man-power. Quite frankly, their decision to end the community may really be a signal that they feel pretty confident with the way things are progressing with 5e so that they don't feel the need to focus resources in maintaining that type of forum.

(Also, EnWorld does a great job covering the RPG market so being part of this community is satisfying and informative...so I guess we don't really need a WotC forum even though many of us enjoyed it over the years).

BoldItalic said:

Personally, I'm happy with the level of support for 5e. But then, I don't need much. For me, the fun is in making stuff up. If I get stuck for inspiration, I have boxes of stuff from old editions to pull out and reminisce over.

Making 5e backwards-compatible with old editions was the masterstroke, because it means that all the stuff on dndclassics is support for 5e and there's so much of it, that it hardly needs any more.

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I'm a self-creator as well, but for a large swath of players, that isn't going to be enough. They want more, or they are DMs that don't have time to do so.

This is the only area where I think WotC is lacking. They don't push DnDClassics. It's like they assume that everyone already knows about it. If one of my players didn't tell me about ENWorld and people here didn't tell me about Classics I wouldn't know it exists. That's despite the fact that I'm on Twitter/Facebook on a professional basis and follow the official accounts and most of the employee accounts.

There's almost no mention of DnDclassics on their website, no mention in social. I don't recall seeing a mention in the Core books, nor in SCAG or Rise of Tiamat (the limit of my purchases).

DnDClassics is almost like the secret menu at various cafes and fast food places. It's great if you know about it and can handle conversions, but that doesn't apply to 99% of their audience.

Within the teapot which is the TTRPG fanbase, 5E is king.
But is is just that, a teapot, and WotC has rightly decided that trying to make that teapot bigger won't happen and also decided that the teapot as-is is not worthy of significant investment.

bedir than said:

There's almost no mention of DnDclassics on their website, no mention in social. I don't recall seeing a mention in the Core books, nor in SCAG or Rise of Tiamat (the limit of my purchases).

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Yes, I agree. It's there if you look under "Product Info">"Tabletop Games" but you almost have to know that in advance, to know where to look. I think perhaps WotC don't push it because dndclassics is owned by DriveThruRPG and it's a separate company.

Interesting points all around. Question...what the heck is DnDclassics (beyond the normal reference to classic materials) is someone converting classic modules?

I am a fan of the slow release, I just wish the IV drip was a little steadier. I really like the sandbox adventure sites they did in 4e, so I guess I'll just have to use those and convert them. I really would like more monsters as well. I have been having great success re-flavoring and modifying creatures, so maybe it's not a huge deal, but it would be nice to see "official" write-ups on some additional critters and beasties.

Side note: has anyone had much exposure/experience with Fifth Edition Foes by Frog God Games? Just curious to now if folks think that is a good source of additional monsters (as in "balanced" with the core MM/5e rules).