D&D 5E What do you do when your players are gunshy?

Herobizkit said:

And here's what I mean. If the players decide they no longer want to save the world, your solution is to trash the campaign and make a brand new setting from scratch rather than move on and let the former events play out.

Think of it like real-like jobs. Say you're working at McDonald's for a few years, then later decide you don't want that anymore, so you apply and start working at a call centre. When that doesn't pan out, say you go to college for a few years and get some extra training as an electrician...

In both cases, McDonald's doesn't crumple and people still call the call centre; the only difference is, you no longer affect what happens there. Same thing goes for campaigns. People change their minds all the time - why does the world have to end because the heroes decide the main plot isn't their plot any more?

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they don't work at McDonalds... they are and have been for a year the only people who can stop the bad guys from killing everyone they know and love... if they don't want to save the world, then the world will not be saved I don't understand the discount.

Now, that said, if they're disgusted with their _charatacters_, that's a good reason to tableflip. But if their characters are fine and the world is fine, why not start them down a new path and let the old path continue in the background?

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for how long? what happens when Hec tor Kar comes a knocking and there is no one to stop him?

Which I get, I suppose, but WHY are these restrictions in place?

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well because there are races that don't make sense? there are no drow in dark sun... there are no clerics in dark sun...

My best guess is because they fit YOUR idea of the campaign world/setting you've created.

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well the one that is most restrictive wasn't made by me...

And in all fairness, these aren't unreasonable requests. I'm curious as to why you need to house rule casters, though (except for Dark Sun - that one I understand very well).

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dark sun is the one with house ruled preserve/defiler...

Now, did YOU pick these or did the players actually say that's what they wanted?

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those are the backgrounds they wrote...

Because, again, if you decided "this is how your character is" based on what they wrote, you are taking narrative control away from the players and making it YOUR story.

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I don't get you I make the world they write the background...

I think I'm starting to understand what's the issue here... as a writer, you enjoy creating worlds, settings, and plots, and when you try and lay these down on players who think and do what THEY want, it often rails against what YOU want or expect to happen. Then, when you try and nudge/force the plot to go the way you want, the players feel cheated or trapped and want out.

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yup... I quit... I let them choose the damn plot, I let them make up characters, half of those plot/worlds are based on what they want and ask for and I still end up being told "Hey that thing I asked for...why did you give it to me..."

Mephista said:

So, it sounds like it was just a flop of a plot. Fair enough, sometimes that happens. Give feedback, learn the pitfalls, move on to a new one. Personally, I would have given at least some small reward beyond the "Princess is in another castle" line. Make it a phyrric victory.

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I didn't say that... he did. What I did was congragulate them on not falling for the trap (they circumvented it) then explained what happened and told the player here "Hey you can roll investigate to get the whole story" then when he passed explained "The guy donesn't trust magic, but might of arms you bet it's in his bed room right now."

Honestly, if one thing I've picked up from this thread, its that there's a clear issue of miscommunication going on with this table.

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I spend $60 a year keeping a wiki up with foarm just for us to talk gameing. I end every Tuesday night with quastions about what they liked and didn't, and what they think in and out of game is going on...

but I give up the fact is that I can't keep running a game that even after it is PC requested plot, PC requested sub plot and a list of them voted by PCs witch one to do, then refit by PC backgrounds I am still told the PC had no agency in this...

GMforPowergamers said:

for how long? what happens when Hec tor Kar comes a knocking and there is no one to stop him?

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Here's the kicker: do they care? Are they engrossed in this?

You can raise the stakes as high as possible, but it doesn't mean a thing if they're don't care about it

There's a reason I always recommend heist missions as a starter quest, outside of my love of heists. You'll get a feel for what people want to go with, just due to how varied they are and the stuff you need to do to set up. Combat, social, all hat is in a heist

I suggest pausing the current campaign - that is, leaving the decision if you want to get back to it or to discard it for later. But give yourself a few month's break before this.

And in the meantime, play something completely different. No D&D. One-shots instead of a campaign. Maybe with different GMs. Try as wide range of games as you can; see what you really like. Widening your horizons is a great medicine for GM and player burnout.

Try The One Ring, for a different kind of fantasy. Try Mouse Guard, a game about heroic underdogs. Try Dogs in the Vineyard, where the focus is on moral judgement, not on winning. Try Urban Shadows, Nobilis, Hillfolk.

And then discuss what the players want from the game.

Because without a range of options to choose from, one can get frustrated and make a "don't want" list, but be unable to articulate what they'd really want to do in play.

GMforPowergamers said:

I didn't say that... he did.

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And if that's how they felt, then that's what happened. Intent and expectations did not meet. That's all I'm saying. Well, that, and maybe a bone. Simple congratulations can feel hollow. It could feel... anticlimatic, maybe? Perhaps the players would have enjoyed going -further- and triggering a portal they fall into and end up in the Outlands or something.

I spend $60 a year keeping a wiki up with foarm just for us to talk gameing. I end every Tuesday night with quastions about what they liked and didn't, and what they think in and out of game is going on...

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None of which promises understanding. Maybe someone doesn't know how to explain what they want. That happens sometimes.

raptor112 said:

I'm one of the players & from my point a view it didn't quite go down the way gmforpowergamers is making it sound. He's leaving out a bunch of stuff & exaggerating a few points. It comes down to the fact, at least for me, that it felt like the rug was pulled out from under us when he revealed the vault was a fake. We didn't know that he was genre savvy (none of his other villains are, from the best of my knowledge) and while we were told that he was tactical, he didn't tell us that he used bait and switch.

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If this one of the players from the OP's game, sure sounds to me like there are not only communication issues, but trust issues as well. I'm getting a real feel of burnout from this whole scenario, with a swap of DM and system necessary to get the juices flowing. Or quite simply a nice long break doing something else.

TwoSix said:

If this one of the players from the OP's game, sure sounds to me like there are not only communication issues, but trust issues as well. I'm getting a real feel of burnout from this whole scenario, with a swap of DM and system necessary to get the juices flowing. Or quite simply a nice long break doing something else.

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don't worry after 19 1/2 years of always having a D&D game, and 15ish years of Tuesday night game...I quit.

I am not running D&D, the fact is I think I should have quite long ago... I think I will stay aeay from enworld too. I came here for help, the only thing not on the table for what I might have done wrong is railroad...because I give them what they say they want. I'm done. good bye

GMforPowergamers said:

don't worry after 19 1/2 years of always having a D&D game, and 15ish years of Tuesday night game...I quit.

I am not running D&D, the fact is I think I should have quite long ago... I think I will stay aeay from enworld too. I came here for help, the only thing not on the table for what I might have done wrong is railroad...because I give them what they say they want. I'm done. good bye

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Oh, stick with it a few more pages. I'm sure eventually someone will accuse you of railroading.

Seriously, I'm appalled at this thread. It's been 7 pages of GMforPowergamers explaining himself to a bunch of posters who've made up their minds based on his OP that this whole thing must be entirely his fault, for some reason. His players? No, they're absolutely blameless. No discussion of that here. Actually, that's not the way it works, and he doesn't have to explain jack to you people. I'd leave too after all this.

Good show, Sirs.

JackOfAllTirades said:

Oh, stick with it a few more pages. I'm sure eventually someone will accuse you of railroading.

Seriously, I'm appalled at this thread. It's been 7 pages of GMforPowergamers explaining himself to a bunch of posters who've made up their minds based on his OP that this whole thing must be entirely his fault, for some reason. His players? No, they're absolutely blameless. No discussion of that here. Actually, that's not the way it works, and he doesn't have to explain jack to you people. I'd leave too after all this.

Good show, Sirs.

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But...the player is always right...right?

Most of us were just offering advice that we thought could be helpful with no blame, no criticism, no negativity.

JackOfAllTirades said:

Oh, stick with it a few more pages. I'm sure eventually someone will accuse you of railroading.

Seriously, I'm appalled at this thread. It's been 7 pages of GMforPowergamers explaining himself to a bunch of posters who've made up their minds based on his OP that this whole thing must be entirely his fault, for some reason. His players? No, they're absolutely blameless. No discussion of that here. Actually, that's not the way it works, and he doesn't have to explain jack to you people. I'd leave too after all this.

Good show, Sirs.

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I am pretty sure that there is no useful way to respond to a request for advice that does not involve suggesting something that the person could do differently, which implies that they haven't done things perfectly. I mean, that's the point of asking for advice.

YMMV. I saw some people being sort of insulting, but I also saw a lot of pretty friendly troubleshooting and suggestions, which people stated up front might not work, but might be of use.