D&D 5E CR of a monster circumventing hit points?

Thanks, Jester, that makes sense!

A lot of feedback helped me realize that maybe a trap is a better fit, so I looked back over complex traps in the Unearthed Arcana article. Maybe I'll go back to making it a monster if this doesn't pan out like I hope...

Dance of Many Veils
Complex trap (level 11-16, dangerous threat)

The Bonfire once imprisoned three sorceress sisters, forcing them to weave cunning magic into the 50-foot diameter seraglio, with the promise that the one who served him best would win her freedom. While the youngest and eldest sisters realized the Bonfire’s ploy was meant to make them build their own prison, the middle sister was ambitious beyond measure and created a trap she was certain would earn her freedom, and then, she reasoned, she could come back and rescue her sisters. ##work-in-progress story## Exits from the seraglio include two halls and a spiral staircase going up and down.

Trigger. Objects in the seraglio are enchanted with dormant magic to animate when the command words “Pev’ari nimar te” (meaning “Arise now I call you” in Infernal) are spoken. Only the maelephant #, the mage slave #, and the Bonfire know the command word.
Initiative. The trap activates on initiative 20 and 10.
Active Elements. Animated objects within the seraglio include diaphanous curtains, killer pillows, and perfumed veils.
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Diaphanous Curtains (initiative 20). Diaphanous curtains whirl about the seraglio, disguising the exits. As an action, a creature may make a DC 18 Intelligence saving throw to locate the exit of its choice. A creature failing this saving throw (or not attempting it) ends up moving in a random direction without locating any exits.
Killer Pillows (initiative 20). Silk pillows launch from the floor to latch onto intruder’s faces. A killer pillow attacks each creature in the seraglio wielding a weapon, implement, foci, or holy symbol, with a +10 bonus to the attack roll. A creature hit by this attack is grappled (escape DC 18), and while grappled it is also blinded, cannot speak, and is at risk of suffocation. If the creature has not acted yet, it cannot hold its breath while grappled. A creature wearing the nightmare-ruby gorget that the maelephant # wears is never attacked by the killer pillows.
Perfumed Veils (initiative 10). It becomes impossible to readily differentiate the various pleasure slaves in the seraglio, as the confounding perfumed veils make them look and smell the same. As an action, a character can make a DC 18 Intelligence (Investigation) check to determine the identity of any number of slaves whose identity is known to the character.
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Dynamic Element – Bewildering Incense. Starting on the third round, each creature in the seraglio must make a DC 18 Wisdom saving throw at the start of its turn or become bewildered by the incense. A bewildered creature experiences the room spinning around them. Anytime a bewildered creature makes an attack or moves, it must repeat the saving throw; on a failed save, it actually attacks a random target within reach or moves in a random direction determined by the DM. A bewildered creature remains so until leaving the seraglio or the trap ends.
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Constant Elements. The diaphanous curtains, killer pillows, and perfumed veils continue to be threats to creatures within the seraglio. On the third round and beyond, bewildering incense becomes a constant element as well.
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Countermeasures. An antimagic field negates the trap’s effects within the field’s 10-foot-radius sphere as long as the field is in effect. Alternately, animate objects can be used to negate one of the trap’s elements of the caster’s choice for as long as the caster concentrates. Each of the trap’s elements also offers potential unique countermeasures.
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Countermeasures: Diaphanous Curtains. ##work-in-progress##
Countermeasures: Killer Pillows. A creature not wielding any weapons, implements, foci, or holy symbols will not be attacked by the killer pillows, nor will a creature wearing the nightmare-ruby gorget.
Alternately, the pillows can be destroyed or dispelled. A pillow has AC 14 and 10 hit points; destroying a killer pillow reduces their overall attack bonus by 2. However, attacking a pillow that is grappling a creature causes half the attack’s damage to affect the pillow, and half to affect the grappled creature.
A dispel magic spell targeting the pillows also reduces their attack bonus by 2, while each spell level above 3rd that the dispel magic is cast at reduces the pillows’ attack bonus by another 2 (i.e. a 7th level dispel magic reduces the pillows’ attack bonus by 10).
Once their attack bonus is reduced to +0, the killer pillows are no longer a threat, reduced to goose feathers.
Countermeasures: Perfumed Veils. Truesight allows a creature to see through the illusion created by the veils.
A creature proficient with a disguise kit who dons the veiled outfit of a pleasure slave, or a creature using an illusion to present itself as such becomes swept up in the illusion of the veils.
A gust of wind can negate the veils for as long as the caster concentrates.

Quickleaf said:

Killer Pillows (initiative 20). Silk pillows launch from the floor to latch onto intruder’s faces. A killer pillow attacks each creature in the seraglio wielding a weapon, implement, foci, or holy symbol, with a +10 bonus to the attack roll. A creature hit by this attack is grappled (escape DC 18), and while grappled it is also blinded, cannot speak, and is at risk of suffocation. If the creature has not acted yet, it cannot hold its breath while grappled. A creature wearing the nightmare-ruby gorget that the maelephant # wears is never attacked by the killer pillows.

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Just so I've got this straight:
The trap goes off. The pillows attack. Someone with average constitution would basically suffer an attack at +10. On their next round they can try to beat a grapple DC of 18, or use a spell that doesn't require either verbal components or line of sight to escape. If they can't, they're out of the fight and dying.

Cap'n Kobold said:

Just so I've got this straight:
The trap goes off if one of the 3 NPCs says the command word. The pillows attack. Someone wielding a weapon/implement/foci/holy symbol with 13 or less constitution who rolls initiative <20 would basically suffer an attack at +10. On their next round they can try to beat a grapple DC of 18 or use any of the forced movement or teleport options used to escape grapples, or use a spell that doesn't require either verbal components or line of sight to escape. If they can't or their party can't disable the killer pillows through countermeasures in time, they're out of the fight and dying.

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That's right.

Am I right in assuming you think it should be toned down somehow?

MechaPilot said:

Because most people don't ordinarily breathe as deeply all day long as they do just before holding their breath. A character holding her breath is probably assumed to have prepared herself, likely by taking several deep breaths, beforehand (the way real people do before swimming underwater or entering a smoke-filled room).

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Agreed. I thought of that same idea when asking the question. In my mind I see character that is sleeping on the pillow not having any breath to hold and thus the OP statement to apply easily. However, I'm assuming the pillow is flying from the bed at the PCs face. It would seem reasonable that an adventurer would reactively take a break before the pillow lands on the characters face. After writing that, maybe that is an option for the player to consider. Do they want to use their Reaction to take a breath prior to the pillow engaging.

Quickleaf said:

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Diaphanous Curtains (initiative 20). Diaphanous curtains whirl about the seraglio, disguising the exits. As an action, a creature may make a DC 18 Intelligence saving throw to locate the exit of its choice. A creature failing this saving throw (or not attempting it) ends up moving in a random direction without locating any exits.
Killer Pillows (initiative 20). Silk pillows launch from the floor to latch onto intruder’s faces. A killer pillow attacks each creature in the seraglio wielding a weapon, implement, foci, or holy symbol, with a +10 bonus to the attack roll. A creature hit by this attack is grappled (escape DC 18), and while grappled it is also blinded, cannot speak, and is at risk of suffocation. If the creature has not acted yet, it cannot hold its breath while grappled. A creature wearing the nightmare-ruby gorget that the maelephant # wears is never attacked by the killer pillows.
Perfumed Veils (initiative 10). It becomes impossible to readily differentiate the various pleasure slaves in the seraglio, as the confounding perfumed veils make them look and smell the same. As an action, a character can make a DC 18 Intelligence (Investigation) check to determine the identity of any number of slaves whose identity is known to the character.
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Dynamic Element – Bewildering Incense. Starting on the third round, each creature in the seraglio must make a DC 18 Wisdom saving throw at the start of its turn or become bewildered by the incense. A bewildered creature experiences the room spinning around them. Anytime a bewildered creature makes an attack or moves, it must repeat the saving throw; on a failed save, it actually attacks a random target within reach or moves in a random direction determined by the DM. A bewildered creature remains so until leaving the seraglio or the trap ends.
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Constant Elements. The diaphanous curtains, killer pillows, and perfumed veils continue to be threats to creatures within the seraglio. On the third round and beyond, bewildering incense becomes a constant element as well.
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Countermeasures. An antimagic field negates the trap’s effects within the field’s 10-foot-radius sphere as long as the field is in effect. Alternately, animate objects can be used to negate one of the trap’s elements of the caster’s choice for as long as the caster concentrates. Each of the trap’s elements also offers potential unique countermeasures.
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Countermeasures: Diaphanous Curtains. ##work-in-progress##
Countermeasures: Killer Pillows. A creature not wielding any weapons, implements, foci, or holy symbols will not be attacked by the killer pillows, nor will a creature wearing the nightmare-ruby gorget.
Alternately, the pillows can be destroyed or dispelled. A pillow has AC 14 and 10 hit points; destroying a killer pillow reduces their overall attack bonus by 2. However, attacking a pillow that is grappling a creature causes half the attack’s damage to affect the pillow, and half to affect the grappled creature.
A dispel magic spell targeting the pillows also reduces their attack bonus by 2, while each spell level above 3rd that the dispel magic is cast at reduces the pillows’ attack bonus by another 2 (i.e. a 7th level dispel magic reduces the pillows’ attack bonus by 10).
Once their attack bonus is reduced to +0, the killer pillows are no longer a threat, reduced to goose feathers.
Countermeasures: Perfumed Veils. Truesight allows a creature to see through the illusion created by the veils.
A creature proficient with a disguise kit who dons the veiled outfit of a pleasure slave, or a creature using an illusion to present itself as such becomes swept up in the illusion of the veils.
A gust of wind can negate the veils for as long as the caster concentrates.

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Check how the pillows interact with the perfumed veils. Since the pillows causes a creature to become blind and not able to breath, I don't think the character affected by the pillow would also be affected by the perfume. I'm not sure if this is your intent.

For the saves against the bewildering incense I would recommend a player either rolling at the beginning of the turn or the end of their turn. Applying a saving roll with each attack roll feels like it adds a bunch of extra rolling that will cause the encounter to drag on.

The random direction movement based on a failed save with the curtains doesn't feel right. It might be easier to interpret the failed save as the character could not dig through such heavy layers or navigate the puzzle/maze like curtains to find the object (door, window, creature, etc) they were looking for.

Expect the PCs to try and cut the curtains down. If you want to continue with the curtains as a persistent confusing threat, then possibly have large curtain be chopped into two medium sized curtains. The medium sized curtains cannot cover more area, but it can possibly make the maze it uses for hiding the wall more confusing. You could continue to allow the curtains to be cut down to tiny sized objects.

Quickleaf said:

That's right.

Am I right in assuming you think it should be toned down somehow?

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I don't know what players you have, their level, or power.

I was just checking that I had understood the rules you were using correctly, and that you understood that someone like the average arcane spellcaster is probably going to be hit, is probably not going to beat DC18 grapple check, and is probably not going to have any other options to get out of it otherwise due to there being very few spells without verbal components and very few that don't require line of sight. If they do, as you imply, have teleport or forced movement options which don't require them, then that is less of a threat, and gives them a more fun option.
I also wasn't sure whether someone who hadn't pumped Con would be out after one round or two.

Do they attack every round while the trap is active, or just when it is first triggered?

At the end of the day, you know what characters are in your party, what options and magic items they have. So you are the only person who can determine whether you think that this encounter will be fun for the players or not.

Cap'n Kobold said:

I don't know what players you have, their level, or power.

I was just checking that I had understood the rules you were using correctly, and that you understood that someone like the average arcane spellcaster is probably going to be hit, is probably not going to beat DC18 grapple check, and is probably not going to have any other options to get out of it otherwise due to there being very few spells without verbal components and very few that don't require line of sight. If they do, as you imply, have teleport or forced movement options which don't require them, then that is less of a threat, and gives them a more fun option.
I also wasn't sure whether someone who hadn't pumped Con would be out after one round or two.

Do they attack every round while the trap is active, or just when it is first triggered?

At the end of the day, you know what characters are in your party, what options and magic items they have. So you are the only person who can determine whether you think that this encounter will be fun for the players or not.

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They're meant to attack every round, but if you look at the countermeasures they are easily beat down. "Killing" one pillow...though I'm hesitant to use that terminology as it suggests thinking about this like a monster, when I need to think about it like an abstracted trap... but anyhow, "killing" a pillow only takes hitting AC 14 and dealing 10 damage, which ispretty easy for a 15th-16th level PC. Heck, a Rogue of that level has blindsense! And each one you "kill" reduces their attack bonus by 2...so +10 > +8 > +6 > +4 > +2 > +0 (no more pillows).

I probably should make some caveat that the pillows only attack visible creatures wielding weapons/implements/foci/holy symbols.

This is for a for-publication adventure, so my considerations are a little different.

I'll be playtesting with at least 2 groups of my own (and looking to get another DM to test my adventure in his or her own game).

Face-to-face group, will probably be testing with four to six players running 15th-16th level PCs (TBD). This will be a playtest, not part of an ongoing campaign, run as sort of a dungeon-of-the-month. While they're all experienced D&D players, they don't have as much experience with high-level 5e. I may have some pre-generated character sheets for them to choose from.

Online group, currently 11th level, will be testing with up to six players running 15th-16th level PCs. This is part of an ongoing Al-Qadim campaign and will serve as the finale. So far the PCs include (* indicates reasonably balanced homebrew):

• Cleric (truth domain*)
• Monk (way of shadow) / Rogue (assassin)
• Warlock (noble genie*)
• Fighter (guardian*)
• Barbarian (dervish*)
• Possibly a Rogue...not certain

cooperjer said:

Agreed. I thought of that same idea when asking the question. In my mind I see character that is sleeping on the pillow not having any breath to hold and thus the OP statement to apply easily. However, I'm assuming the pillow is flying from the bed at the PCs face. It would seem reasonable that an adventurer would reactively take a breath before the pillow lands on the characters face. After writing that, maybe that is an option for the player to consider. Do they want to use their Reaction to take a breath prior to the pillow engaging.

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While I agree with your reaction idea, I think there needs to be some risk of failure there; for example, an opposed ability check. Otherwise, that reaction would be the obvious choice of action for anyone who faces these pillows (unless you had a better reaction to help you evade the pillow), so much that I can't really think of any good reason to not spend your reaction to do that.