D&D 5E Phantom Steed.

FrostyFire · Aug 13, 2017

Some questions about the Phantom Steed Spell.

1. Can you refresh your steed by ritual casting (or normal) while mounted still on one ? If so do you have to change horse or does it count as the Steed you are on and it is just refreshed ?
2. One interesting thing mentioned is it "ends" if it takes damage; when it "ends," it takes a minute to fade away. So even tho it can take as little as one damage to end it, it takes a full minute to fully end so if in combat thats 10 rounds. Can you keep riding it for that duration no matter how much damage it takes after ? how does this work exactly ?
3. About mounted combat in general which seems a little fuzzy, it seems your mount moves on your initiative but counts separate from you so does that mean your mount can disengage or dash while still leaving your action free ?

neogod22 · Aug 13, 2017

1. DM's discretion. I've operating as yes. There's no reason for the spell to create a new mount.

2. I rule this as no. Once the illusion breaks, the horse can't be used. It gives you 1 minute, so you can get your gear out of the packs before it fades away.

3. If you're riding an animal, you can use its movement as your movement, but it doesn't get separate actions. If you want the horse to do those kinds of actions, you must use your action to command it.

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thethain · Aug 13, 2017

neogod22 said:
1. DM's discretion. I've operating as yes. There's no reason for the spell to create a new mount.

2. I rule this as no. Once the illusion breaks, the horse can't be used. It gives you 1 minute, so you can get your gear out of the packs before it fades away.

3. If you're riding an animal, you can use its movement as your movement, but it doesn't get separate actions. If you want the horse to do those kinds of actions, you must use your action to command it.

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Your number 3 is very false.

The horse uses ITS OWN movement and actions while being controlled in combat. However it is limited to the disengage and dash actions. Your mount could for example, use all its movement, then you could use half your movement to dismount, then move the remaining movement.

You can control a mount only if it has been trained to accept a rider. Domesticated horses, donkeys, and similar creatures are assumed to have such training. The initiative of a controlled mount changes to match yours when you mount it. It moves as you direct it, and it has only three action options: Dash, Disengage, and Dodge. A controlled mount can move and act even on the turn that you mount it.

FrostyFire · Aug 13, 2017

Thats a shame about NO 2 but thats why I wanted to check. It seems like a cool spell but with a low AC and any amount of damage ending it seems alot less useful. It would be cool as an illusion that it could run through difficult terrain or along water but meh.

jodyjohnson · Aug 13, 2017

Sage Advice for moving after damage:
http://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/11/21...for-one-more-minute-as-it-fades-away-correct/

Sage Advice for special movement:
http://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/09/22...lk-over-the-water-and-rough-terrain-normally/

Although with 100 foot movement is still goes very fast through difficult terrain.

MonkeyWrench · Aug 13, 2017

Phantom Steed is really more a long-distance travel spell than a combat mount spell.

Find Steed, the paladin spell, will give you a decent combat mount though.

neogod22 · Aug 13, 2017

thethain said:
Your number 3 is very false.

The horse uses ITS OWN movement and actions while being controlled in combat. However it is limited to the disengage and dash actions. Your mount could for example, use all its movement, then you could use half your movement to dismount, then move the remaining movement.

Nope, you don't get extra actions and movements when you get on and off the mount. Whenever you have multiple movements, you can use any combination of movement but can't exceed your highest movement score. So if you have a mount that has a movement of 60ft. And you spend 15ft to mount it, you can only move 45ft that turn. Remember a round is only 6 secs. And just like you have to take time mounting. The mount has to take time allowing that to happen. Some DMs might rule as taking half of the mount's movement too, and that's perfectly legitimate. The only time an animal gets its own actions is when it is unmounted. There's no way will it ever be remotely allowable for a player to say; "I'm going to dash 30ft, move 15ft, mount a horse, then it moves 60ft, then dash another 60ft" all in a 6 sec round.

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thethain · Aug 13, 2017

neogod22 said:
Nope, you don't get extra actions and movements when you get on and off the mount. Whenever you have multiple movements, you can use any combination of movement but can't exceed your highest movement score. So if you have a mount that has a movement of 60ft. And you spend 15ft to mount it, you can only move 45ft that turn. Remember a round is only 6 secs. And just like you have to take time mounting. The mount has to take time allowing that to happen. Some DMs might rule as taking half of the mount's movement too, and that's perfectly legitimate. The only time an animal gets its own actions is when it is unmounted. There's no way will it ever be remotely allowable for a player to say; "I'm going to dash 30ft, move 15ft, mount a horse, then it moves 60ft, then dash another 60ft" all in a 6 sec round.

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I appreciate the vigor of defending your argument when faced with quotes from the phb to the contrary. And in your home game you can use whatever rules you like.

However, Mounts are their own creatures, whose initiate is changed to match yours when you take control of them. A mount using its movement doesn't use the rider's movement.

Here is Jeremy Stating that a mount uses ITS OWN action to disengage, dodge, or dash.

http://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/06/18...se-its-own-action-to-dash-disengage-or-dodge/
http://www.sageadvice.eu/2014/11/04/controlled-mount/

And here is Jeremy stating that the rider is being carried by another creature's movement (IE not his own)

http://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/06/09/mount-disengage/

It is also important to know that even tho the initiative is the same, it is still a different creatures, so complex interactions, such as the mount moving, the player attacking, and then the mount moving away, is not strictly RAW legal. Because you have to determine if the horse or rider is going first in initiative.

http://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/05/24...k-mid-move-do-rider-and-mount-share-one-turn/

I apologize if I was needlessly confrontational in my earlier post, my emphasis was to prevent disinformation from being spread. You need to understand that a mount and rider in DnD 5e are two separate creatures and interact with the game as such. The mount is just under the rider's control. It still has its own movement, actions, hp, and possible ongoing effects. The rider is just along for the ride.

FrostyFire · Aug 13, 2017

MonkeyWrench said:
Phantom Steed is really more a long-distance travel spell than a combat mount spell.

Find Steed, the paladin spell, will give you a decent combat mount though.

Yeah I guess so but as you mentioned Find Steed is a Paladin only spell and as such not suitable for a ranged spell caster type also Phantom Steed can be cast as a ritual and find Steed takes 10 minutes to cast anyway.

Satyrn · Aug 13, 2017

I suggest my common advice. Write another spell, based on phantom steed, that lets you summon/conjure/shadowshape a hardier mount meant for combat. Call it Phantom Charger, maybe, with a 1 action casting time and a 1 hour duration (I guess, I don't really know what would work best for this)

Anyway, the idea would be to give you a horse meant for combat. You might even be able to justify making it an intelligent mount, letting it act independently and able to make attacks. Give it a reasonable attack for whatever level you set the spell at. Maybe even a sort of breath weapon. Go big!

D&D 5E Phantom Steed.

FrostyFire

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neogod22

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thethain

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jodyjohnson

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MonkeyWrench

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neogod22

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