Harassment At PaizoCon 2017

In our post-Harvey Weinstein world, more and more people in the various entertainment industries are coming forward with allegations of abuse and harassment, both sexual and psychological. The tabletop gaming industry isn't isolated from this wave of revelation as incidents surface, and will likely continue to surface about professionals, and fans, within the gaming communities.

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In our post-Harvey Weinstein world, more and more people in the various entertainment industries are coming forward with allegations of abuse and harassment, both sexual and psychological. The tabletop gaming industry isn't isolated from this wave of revelation as incidents surface, and will likely continue to surface about professionals, and fans, within the gaming communities.


Stories of harassment within tabletop gaming, at conventions and stores, and even in local gaming groups are nothing new. That is probably the saddest fact of this whole thing: that despite stories being brought to light, not only does harassment continue to happen but the existence of it continues to be denied by some. This denial is one of the factors that allows abuse and harassment to continue within tabletop RPGs.

Allegations of improper behavior at the 2017 PaizoCon by Frog God Games CEO Bill Webb were brought to life by Pathfinder content creator Robert Brookes. Brookes was attending PaizoCon and has written for Paizo and Legendary Games, among others. In an incident involving alcohol, Webb allegedly sexually harassed another guest at the convention and when a staffer attempted to intervene and injury occurred with the staffer.

In a thread about harassment and abuse on gaming forum RPGNet, Frog God Games partner Matt Finch, creator of the Swords & Wizardry retroclone, confirmed that the incident with Webb occurred, and revealed some details about an internal investigation that the partners of Frog God Games conducted into the incident:

"I am Matt Finch, the partner of Frog God Games appointed by the partners to investigate a sexual harassment complaint filed against Mr. Webb at PaizoCon 2017. Mr. Webb was not consulted by the partners on this decision. Due to recent accusations made on Twitter by a third party, I will outline the aspects of the situation to the extent that they do not compromise the confidentiality of the person who filed the report, I will describe the nature of our internal investigation, and will also address the recently-raised tweets by Robert Brookes on his twitter feed. This report will not necessarily be updated; it stands for itself at the time of posting, based on the knowledge I currently have.

"First, it is correct that a complaint was filed with Paizo at PaizoCon against Bill. I was made aware of this by phone on the day it happened (I was not present at the convention). Frog God is aware of the identity of the person who made the complaint, because they spoke to three of our partners at the convention after the event. We have not been invited to share that person’s identity, and although we are not under legal obligation to protect that confidentiality we have elected to respect that person’s desire not to have the event brought into the spotlight.

"Gathering information in a situation like this is necessarily limited due to Paizo’s own confidentiality obligations. To assemble information, I spoke to the three partners who had talked with the person who filed the complaint, and obtained their accounts of what they were told. Secondhand accounts are not perfect, and I had to weigh that against the fact that an attorney making direct contact with someone who has filed such a report can be seen as a threat or intimidation, and weighing those two issues, I chose to rely on a comparison of the conversations between the individual and our partners, plus Paizo’s own resolution of the matter at the time, plus a necessarily-cautious review of Bill’s account. There has been contact between the person who filed the complaint and Frog God partners since the event, and I will provide a screenshot of one such communication with the name redacted. I believe the screenshot provides a great deal of clarification.

"Reducing the event to a level that will maintain confidentiality, my understanding based on my investigation was that Bill Webb took an action and engaged in speech that could be construed as a sexual advance or as gender-dismissive.

"In consequence of this finding, I and another senior partner of the company had a meeting with Mr. Webb about expectations, standards of behavior, and future protocol. We addressed that one’s lack of bad intentions does not excuse problematic behavior.

"Some people have asked that Mr. Webb acknowledge and apologize for the situation. Bill does deeply regret his actions, and understands that they were inappropriate and upsetting. I have told Mr. Webb not to contact the person directly, for the same reason that I have not done so myself: the potential for that contact to appear intimidating or threatening. However, at whatever time the person lets us know that a direct apology from Mr. Webb would be welcomed, that apology will be immediately forthcoming. Mr. Webb is also under instruction not to discuss this matter in public, in case peripheral details were to be inadvertently disclosed that might allow the identification of the person by another party. This is also the reason we chose to have me, as the investigating partner, write the public report, given that a report has become necessary in response to a recent description of the event on Twitter."


We reached out to Webb for comment upon this incident, and we were directed to the RPGNet post by Finch. This is the company's official statement on what happened at PaizoCon. Whether or not there will be further repercussions within Frog God Games due to this incident and Webb's actions remain to be seen.

Paizo CEO Lisa Stevens has released an official statement on the incident on the Paizo forums. When EN World reached out to Paizo for official comment, we were directed to this statement:

"My name is Lisa Stevens and I am the CEO and owner of Paizo Inc. Events of the past few weeks have compelled me to make this statement.

"My company will never condone any sexual harassment or assault against any of our employees, male or female. We will never condone any sexual harassment or assault against any of our customers on paizo.com or at sanctioned organized play activities. Whenever I hear any allegations of sexual harassment or assault related to Paizo’s activities, I always immediately drop whatever I'm doing and I make getting to the bottom of these issues my top priority. We have banned people from paizo.com. We have banned people from participating in our organized play activities. We have stopped doing business with individuals. And we will continue to do so.
"As a woman and a survivor of sexual harassment, sexual assault, and rape, I know what it is like to be on the receiving end of these attacks. I know what it is like to feel the shame, the terror, how it changes your life forever. And because of this, I will never stand for my company to condone this behavior.

"Paizo’s employees are encouraged to come forward with any allegations of sexual harassment or assault and let a manager know as soon as possible. If criminal activities have taken place, they are encouraged to report it to the police and take legal action against the perpetrator. We have asked our employees to not engage in explosive and angry dialogue on paizo.com. We want our website to be a place where our customers feel safe and among friends. If there is problem on paizo.com, then our community team will handle it and, where appropriate, ban the perpetrator.

"In closing, you have my word that I have zero tolerance for sexual harassment and assault, and the same is true of Paizo. Please be aware that we treat these issues with tremendous sensitivity, and only disclose the specifics and resolutions of any such incidents on a need-to-know basis, even within Paizo or with our legal counsel. We do not and will not discuss these matters publicly. Every instance that I am aware of has been thoroughly investigated, and appropriate actions have been taken or are in the process of being taken. You have my word on this."


Unrelated to the PaizoCon incident, Brookes also revealed an incident of harassment within the Pathfinder Society organized play program. When a volunteer staffer reported this incident, their supervisor informed them that an NDA they had signed to be part of the program would not allow her to discuss this incident. Paizo has not officially commented on this incident or commented on whether or not there is an investigation into it.

If tabletop role-playing games are truly going to be an inclusive, we have to be better about not just reporting incidents of abuse and harassment but being dedicated to creating spaces that are safe and free of harassment of our fellow gamers. We also need to shine a spotlight onto the incidents of harassment that occur, it is the responsibility of journalists, bloggers and gamers to do this and let people know that their actions will come to light and that they will be held responsible. It is also important to not just talk about those parts of the gaming communities that we don't agree with, but to also bring to light the improper actions of those companies and communities with whom we do agree, because unless every act of harassment is revealed there will be no change within our communities.

Remember that EN World is an inclusive community.
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Hussar

Legend
WRT Folca, how do you expect to flesh out horrible, evil villains for players to fight against without backstory and at least some notion of how their mechanics and stats work? And is everyone going to start piling on Stephen King next for what he created? Or on people who enjoyed his most recent popular movie, which is all about a creepy child abuse demon?

Some themes are legitimately triggering or upsetting for survivors of abuse and should in no way be introduced to any players without the full and informed consent of everyone at the table. They're definitely not appropriate for a public setting or for a game that may include actual minors. Other people may just find them distasteful and not consent to play with any of these elements. That consent or lack of should absolutely be respected. Conversely, adults who want to explore grimdark themes should be allowed to do so in their own home games.

Not so much appropriate for organized play though. That could be problematic for the reasons above.

There's a difference though. Do we really need mechanics to detail child abuse? Note, I'm not meaning to pile on Paizo here. They readily admit a mistake and fair enough. It happens, and, presumably, lessons are learned and we move on.

But, as a broader question, which is similar to stuff like the old Book of Erotic Fantasy and that ilk, does the game actually need mechanics for this? What is being added to the game? Is it going to make the game more fun for participants? Is it an area that is lacking? Well, not really.

As far as exploring grimdark themes, again, it's not necessary that we have to tie that to a d20 Fort save is it?
 

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Obryn

Hero
According to Matt Finch of Frog God Games, the timing of the ad was a messed up coincidence.
https://www.froggodgames.com/forum/response-frog-god-games-events-social-media
Honestly, I'm not buying this excuse. It's too on-point, and doesn't make much sense in any other context.

Hiya!
then it doesn't matter as nothing will "be done" about it other than online platitudes and virtue signaling by some. Want to really make people think twice about drinking themselves stupid and aggressively pursuing someone? Take them to court. Otherwise.... "...sigh..."
(1) The accusation of 'virtue signaling' is basically saying the other person isn't sincere in their beliefs and is just pretending to give a rat's ass about topics that they claim are important to them. Or, that they're not arguing in good faith. Basically, that they are a liar and showing off for their friends. And that's a heaping pile of crap. Maybe you don't intend to be saying that, but that's what you're saying.
(2) See this thread? This is things happening - or at least how things happen. The idea that police need to be involved for anything to be serious is asinine.

Do you want to change the Book of the Damned to the Book of the Naughty? In a game designed around killing things for their stuff?
Oh man. Excellent point. If it's not one extreme thing it must be the other extreme thing!

I had more things to say, but James Jacobs has said it was a mistake, and that's good enough for me.

WRT Folca, how do you expect to flesh out horrible, evil villains for players to fight against without backstory and at least some notion of how their mechanics and stats work?
Easy. You don't stat that stuff out. If you must have a child molesting demon (and I really don't think you must, but bear with me) there is absolutely zero reason to give it mechanical weight. "These monstrous pedophiles get terrible powers" and then leave it for the DM. Their mechanics and stats work - should they be used at all - in whatever way the DM deems appropriate for their home game. As opposed to a suite of specific spells custom-designed for raping kids.
 

MechaPilot

Explorer
There's a difference though. Do we really need mechanics to detail child abuse? Note, I'm not meaning to pile on Paizo here. They readily admit a mistake and fair enough. It happens, and, presumably, lessons are learned and we move on.

I agree, both about the mechanics and about the piling-on. If I were to have a child-abusing demon in one of my games (I won't. But, for argument's sake. . .) I really wouldn't feel the need to make mechanics for the child abuse. The things the demon has already done would've worked because of plot, not because of spells other people can learn. The only reasons I can see for creating mechanics for those powers would be 1) if children were going to be in the area where the PCs fight the demon, and at best that would be about compelling a child (or children) to come between the demon and the PCs to make the fight harder or morally stickier. Or, 2) having something a PC could do, or a MacGuffin to be used, to remove the fiend's influence from the children.


But, as a broader question, which is similar to stuff like the old Book of Erotic Fantasy and that ilk, does the game actually need mechanics for this?

I quite like the BoEF. Now, don't get me wrong, many of the mechanics are awful and/or unnecessary, even in a game where romantic or sexual themes are allowed. That said, the non-mechanical sections that talk about different types of marriages, setting a "rating" for the content allowed at the table, dealing with discomfort about openly talking about sex occurring in-game (whether on or off camera), and the sidebar that calls out mind-influencing magic as basically being magic roofies and talks about how using it that way would generally be criminal and abhorred by most people are quite good.
 

Aguirre Melchiors

Banned
Banned
looks like to me that someone get offense over words, speech and jokes.
looks funny to me that the description of this ''horrible'' events are vague.
In our society today being a victim/ofended grants you a lot of power over people, the case of weinstein was secual harrasment because he did couch tests and forced woman to get in sexual relations to his with COERSION, its very clear.
jokes, words, criticism, sarcasm and being a dick is not abuse.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]This *is* harassment, and victim blaming is utterly unacceptable. Anybody who wants to belittle or blame the victim being discussed here should probably consider leaving, just to save time. In your case leave the thread, please.[/FONT]
 
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Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Hiya!

Well, for my 2¢, I'm going to have to take this whole thing the way I did the "racist Chult thing"; which is basically: ...shrug...

Don't really care, sorry.

WHOA! Before everyone burns me at the stake, let me explain why I'm being so seemingly 'monsterous' in my reaction. The simple fact is that it boils down to this: until actual criminal charges are brought, it MUST, by default, fall into the "not serious enough" catagory. If all that the 'rpg community' does is accuse, then back off, then say sorry, then there are a couple of things going on.

First is that these types of incidents obviously were NOT serious enough to warrant getting the police and the legal system involved. Because of that, it's basically a "my feelings were hurt" or a "he said, she said" school-yard drama. If the police were called, would they have arrested him for the accusation at hand?...or just for being drunk in public? As @Guang said back on page 4, if someone's livelihood and families well-being is at hand...some serious :):):):) had better have gone down. Otherwise it's like a trio of teenage girls claiming some male teacher they don't like "touched them inappropriately"...meaning the teachers career is ruined, regardless of if any of it was true or not, or how serious or not it was.

Second, IF this WAS a fully police-actionable offense, and the police weren't involved...then this sort of thing happening at game conventions is never going to end/change! Again...we are back into the school-yard drama section.

You all want to stop this kind of harassment? DON'T FULLY SUPPORT SOMEONE WHO IS HARASSED AND THEN DOES NOTHING ABOUT IT! Ergo... "...shrug... I don't care". Now, IF she changes her mind and brings charges against him with all the evidence and testimony of those involved, I will be the first one in line to toss a couple hundred bucks into her GoFundMe legal fund. Until that happens, we, as a society, MUST simply take it as "Well...another drunk :):):):):):):) :):):):)s up and gives men, gamers and conventions a bad name. Way to go Bill...ya dick. Sorry you were the target of that, BJ, hope it never happens again".

Ok...now you can get out the tar, feathers, pitchforks, oil and torches. I'm ready. Let 'er rip!

^_^

Paul L. Ming

The logical error you are making is believing that this is a binary situation with only two available resolutions - ignore or prosecute. You’re incorrect. There are other possible actions, including empathy, expose, discuss, and work on making things better.

The fact that you say you don’t care? So don’t post. Posting in a thread to inform everybody how much you don’t care about the topic has a name - it’s called “threadcrapping”.
 
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Aguirre Melchiors

Banned
Banned
A BRASILIAN GUIDE FOR TRUSTFUND AMERICAN KIDS FOR DRUNK DOUCHEBAGS
1) say the words: stop or no.
2) say the words: you are drunk dude, go home.
3) leave the person
4) go to a friend of this person and say: your friend is being a D1ck, control him.
5) you can go to the police or slap him and make a scene.

Not to do
acting like a victim.
donate to my patreon.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
A BRASILIAN GUIDE FOR TRUSTFUND AMERICAN KIDS FOR DRUNK DOUCHEBAGS
1) say the words: stop or no.
2) say the words: you are drunk dude, go home.
3) leave the person
4) go to a friend of this person and say: your friend is being a D1ck, control him.
5) you can go to the police or slap him and make a scene.

Not to do
acting like a victim.
donate to my patreon.

Victim blaming is unacceptable. Leave the thread.
 

ZanzibarJones

First Post
There’s a lot here. I’m struck by. Few things nebulon maybe there’s aren’t answered but:
1. Was Bill Webb banned per Paizo Con’s policies on harassment?
2. What was ‘the incident’? I feel like the only person who doesn’t know what actually happened and it isn’t stated anywhere.
3. Was this person drunk driving? There’s talk about how he had to leave the venue at some point with his family.
I wasn’t at Paizo Con so I’m not sure if it was a hotel or a hotel.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
looks like to me that someone get offense over words, speech and jokes.
looks funny to me that the description of this ''horrible'' events are vague.
In our society today being a victim/ofended grants you a lot of power over people, the case of weinstein was secual harrasment because he did couch tests and forced woman to get in sexual relations to his with COERSION, its very clear.
jokes, words, criticism, sarcasm and being a dick is not abuse.

Just noticed this little gem from earlier. I’ve already told you to leave, so this is more for everybody else — this *is* harassment, and victim blaming is utterly unacceptable. Anybody who wants to belittle or blame the victim being discussed here should probably consider leaving, just to save time.
 

MagicSN

First Post
I do not know what actually happened, so I am in no position to judge anyone. But apearently drunkenness of a representative (of a CEO) of a company played a role. In the (longer) past I also have been representative of a small company on events (not actually con's, but similar enough events). Back then for me (or any of my collegues) it was clear (without being spelled out) that alcohol was not an option for us then. What is done (or drunk) on Company Christmas party is a different thing, but while officially presenting your company - Alcohol is off limits there. This is at least my opinion.
 

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