Leatherhead
Possibly a Idiot.
Do any rules-light systems consist of multiple books?
D&D 5E Would you define the current edition of D&D rules-light or rules-heavy?
Jester David
Hero
In that case, would Pathfinder and GURPs then be "ultra-heavy"?
Obryn
Hero
If you have - what, 800? 900? pages of rulebooks, it's not a rules-light game.
Additionally, there's book referencing required mid-game, which IMO automatically excludes you from the 'rules light' club.
It's much lighter than 3e, probably at a similar level to (or IME heavier than) 4e, and definitely heavier than BX by and large. But none of this makes it rules 'medium' - it's firmly on the heavier end of the spectrum, as far as everything goes. Being lighter than some D&D's and heavier than others doesn't mean it's not a rules-heavy game.
Additionally, there's book referencing required mid-game, which IMO automatically excludes you from the 'rules light' club.
It's much lighter than 3e, probably at a similar level to (or IME heavier than) 4e, and definitely heavier than BX by and large. But none of this makes it rules 'medium' - it's firmly on the heavier end of the spectrum, as far as everything goes. Being lighter than some D&D's and heavier than others doesn't mean it's not a rules-heavy game.
Maybe Hero would qualify? Pathfinder I'd put as just "heavy". GURPS I've not actually played; I know it has a lot of material, but I don't know how heavy the rules system is.
Obryn
Hero
No, still heavy.
If you have two categories, 5e is absolutely heavy. If you have three categories, it's still heavy. Just because there's heavier games in the world doesn't make it rules light. It just means it's not at the extreme ends of that category.
Reference material and options don't add to the rules burden. You can produce a billion monsters for a one-page RPG, and it's still a rules-light game. It's the core rules which make a game heavy or light, not the number of monsters or spells.
ad_hoc
(they/them)
I characterize the design/rules of 5e to be elegant.
Boardgamers describe the weight of the games as being light, medium, or heavy.
Elegant design/rules are independent of that. An elegant design is one that is intuitive and doesn't waste time. It could be a 30 minute game or a 3 hour game, as long as all of the time is used appropriately.
Settlers of Catan for instance is not an elegant game. It takes 90 minutes or more when it should only be 30 minutes, and both the negotiation and resource collection aspect is clunky.
5e is an elegant game but not a rules light game. It plays intuitively, efficiently, and in a timely manner, yet there are a lot of rules and options.
Boardgamers describe the weight of the games as being light, medium, or heavy.
Elegant design/rules are independent of that. An elegant design is one that is intuitive and doesn't waste time. It could be a 30 minute game or a 3 hour game, as long as all of the time is used appropriately.
Settlers of Catan for instance is not an elegant game. It takes 90 minutes or more when it should only be 30 minutes, and both the negotiation and resource collection aspect is clunky.
5e is an elegant game but not a rules light game. It plays intuitively, efficiently, and in a timely manner, yet there are a lot of rules and options.
Obryn
Hero
Yep, absolutely. And if all of the options (monsters, spells, feats, etc) were all self-contained for 5e, I'd agree.
However, the way 5e is set up, spells are as much a rule as anything about cover. Monsters regularly reference back to them, and players need to know their details routinely. (And some spells circle back and reference monsters, too.)
Pretty much all incarnations of D&D are rules heavy IMO. Some editions are lighter than others in some respects, but they're all fairly heavy on rules. The characteristic of the heaviness has shifted from "lots of different subsystems to remember" toward "a single rule system with lots of exceptions to manage", but they're still fairly heavy.
OD&D might be rules-light if you stick just to the core books, though it's "rules light" in the sense of "the expectation is that each table will come up with their own rules as they play" rather than because it was a rules light game by design. As you start adding in supplements, the rules get heavier and heavier.
(But then I consider Cypher system to be rules heavy to be honest. When I think "rules light" I think of games that range from Risus on the light end to the old WEG d6 Star Wars game on the "heaviest" of the rules-light games. Any heavier than d6 Star Wars and you start to move into rules heavy IMO. Any lighter than Risus and you have a game that I haven't encountered yet.)
OD&D might be rules-light if you stick just to the core books, though it's "rules light" in the sense of "the expectation is that each table will come up with their own rules as they play" rather than because it was a rules light game by design. As you start adding in supplements, the rules get heavier and heavier.
(But then I consider Cypher system to be rules heavy to be honest. When I think "rules light" I think of games that range from Risus on the light end to the old WEG d6 Star Wars game on the "heaviest" of the rules-light games. Any heavier than d6 Star Wars and you start to move into rules heavy IMO. Any lighter than Risus and you have a game that I haven't encountered yet.)
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