Waterdeep: Dragon Heist First Impressions

dave2008 · Sep 13, 2018

CapnZapp said:
Sadly, one tag works on desktop, the other in the app.

If you want an universal solution, you need to teach people to use both, one nested inside the other.

I've never used the app so I didn't know - thank you for the heads up!

guinbang · Sep 13, 2018

Re: the maps, I suspect part of the reason for the basic style is that they re-use the basic layout with different details for each of the villains.

If the maps were more detailed, full colour that would potentially restrict the encounter design space and mean they needed to produce a map per villain per location.

Gradine · Sep 13, 2018

collin said:
I'll give you a taste of what I am thinking and where I am going with my transposing Waterdeep to Sharn.

Zhents = Order of the Emerald Claw, but Boromar Clan could be another option, or they could be in cahoots with each other.
Manshoon = wizard necromancer of the Emerald Claw
Xanathar - could leave the same, change his name, or if you want to go full-tilt Eberron, make him a Daelkyr (Dreaming Dark).
Xanathar's Guild - Planning on using Daask
Jarlaxle = Use a Lhazaar Principalties figure such as Prince Kel from the Eberron Player's Guide (makes changing disguises easier instead of using a hat of disguise since he is already a Changeling) or Syrina d'Lyrander from the Explorer's Guide to Eberron
Cassalanters = Could keep them as the same, or change them to another family within Sharn. Are they aligned with the Dreaming Dark/Inspired? Are they involved with a local cult, such as Kielsten Marquan's radiant idol, Zotharr? Lots of options here.

There so many Eberron-ish things that parallel with Waterdeep, such as the different city wards, the Sharn Watch vs. Waterdeep Watch, etc.

The Aurum has been my usual stand-in for the Zhents, but if set in Sharn I'd definitely consider using Clan Boromar; I'd need to check out the adventure to see how well it tracks and how much work I'd have to do to make the switch. The rest I like quite a bit; if I didn't know the history of the Xanathar and you described to me a thieves guild secretly run by a paranoid beholder I'd for sure thought you were talking about Eberron (and Sharn in particular).

doctorbadwolf · Sep 14, 2018

Demetrios1453 said:
As I mentioned on the D&D Beyond thread, I very much like what I have read so far, and am very much looking forward to the upcoming Undermountain sequel, so we can at last run a full 1 - 20 5e campaign.

One thing stuck out in particular - the "summer" campaign with the Cassalantars is quite a bit darker than the other campaigns, since whether the characters win or lose, innocents are going to suffer horribly as a result, unless they somehow find a loophole technicality in something that shouldn't possibly have a loophole technicality.

[sblock]The Cassalantars have pledged the souls of their children to Asmodeus to save themselves from ruin previously - their oldest son's soul has already been forfeited and he is now a chain devil, and the souls of their two younger twin children will be forfeit on their rapidly-approaching ninth birthdays. They can redeem the souls for 999,999 gold pieces and sacrificing 99 "unfortunate souls" to Asmodeus all at once before that date. The Casalantars are looking for the treasure to help pay for the gold piece part of the contract and plan on indulging in a mass poisoning at an upcoming party they will hold. So, if the characters "win" and keep the Cassalantars from gaining the treasure, two innocent children will be turned in to lemures. if the party loses, and the Cassalatars gain the treasure, 99 innocent people (or more by accident) will die (if the party stops that, well, then we're back to dooming the children). The only way that things could come out for the best would be to let the Cassalantars gain the treasure, and then trick them into murdering 99 people who somehow deserve it, which somehow seems a pretty tall order for a low-level party. I did think it would be amusing to ensure only cultists of Asmodeus were invited to the party and then subsequently murdered; while suitably ironic, it would be really difficult and the Lord of the Ninth would probably not see the humor in the situation... [/sblock]

Re: spoiler: what a wonderful segue into a campaign spanning subplot, or even set up for the end game BBEG!

Gradine said:
The Aurum has been my usual stand-in for the Zhents, but if set in Sharn I'd definitely consider using Clan Boromar; I'd need to check out the adventure to see how well it tracks and how much work I'd have to do to make the switch. The rest I like quite a bit; if I didn't know the history of the Xanathar and you described to me a thieves guild secretly run by a paranoid beholder I'd for sure thought you were talking about Eberron (and Sharn in particular).

Emerald Claw might be a better stand in for the Zhents.

The important ant thing about the Zhents in the adventure is that there is a split, and so you’ve got faction zhents, and Manshoon loyal Zhents.

MNblockhead · Sep 14, 2018

CapnZapp said:
Schley or GTFO

I'll happily take Blando as well. He did many of the maps in Volo's guide, but I especially like the maps he puts on on his Patreon. But I haven't seen any great city maps by him. Schley is probably the better fantasy city cartographer.

collin · Sep 14, 2018

Gradine said:
The Aurum has been my usual stand-in for the Zhents, but if set in Sharn I'd definitely consider using Clan Boromar; I'd need to check out the adventure to see how well it tracks and how much work I'd have to do to make the switch. The rest I like quite a bit; if I didn't know the history of the Xanathar and you described to me a thieves guild secretly run by a paranoid beholder I'd for sure thought you were talking about Eberron (and Sharn in particular).

I think of the Zhentarium as more of a combination of the Aurum and the Boromar Clan (or perhaps, the Black Network is the Aurum and the Zhents are the Boromars). Anyway you do it, you can't go wrong. It's all up to what you think works best.

I am starting to wonder if perhaps Sharn has all most TOO much information, and if an easier transposition would be to set WDH in a city of Aundair, such as Passage or Fairhaven.

pukunui · Sep 14, 2018

collin said:
... or perhaps, the Black Network is the Aurum and the Zhents are the Boromars ...

The Black Network and the Zhentarim are the same thing.

Teemu · Sep 14, 2018

collin said:
I am starting to wonder if perhaps Sharn has all most TOO much information, and if an easier transposition would be to set WDH in a city of Aundair, such as Passage or Fairhaven.

Yeah, I think so. Sharn is really big, more like Sigil than your typical fantasy metropolis. Even though Waterdeep is the FR city, it's still more grounded and less bombastically fantastical than Sharn.

robus · Sep 14, 2018

MNblockhead said:
I'll happily take Blando as well. He did many of the maps in Volo's guide, but I especially like the maps he puts on on his Patreon. But I haven't seen any great city maps by him. Schley is probably the better fantasy city cartographer.

I dunno, I find his maps to be very muddy, even the Volo's ones: https://jaredblando.com/volos-guide-to-monsters/

What's strangest of all is that his book on how to make fantasy maps is fantastic, but the maps he creates for WotC seem to be in an entirely different style. The M:tG Ixalan map, for example, is a muddy mess:

View attachment 101414

Gradine · Sep 14, 2018

doctorbadwolf said:
Emerald Claw might be a better stand in for the Zhents.

The important thing about the Zhents in the adventure is that there is a split, and so you’ve got faction zhents, and Manshoon loyal Zhents.

Again, I haven't read the adventure, and I'm not a FR-lore expert, but everything I've read about the Zhentarim, especially here, just screams Aurum to me. Sure Emerald Claw might have the link to necromancy, but they're mostly known as a terrorist organization, and they're ultimately loyal to Lady Vol; they lack either the public face or the desire for riches/econonic/political power that characterize the Zhents. The fact that there appears to be a split makes things a bit more interesting however.

collin said:
I think of the Zhentarium as more of a combination of the Aurum and the Boromar Clan (or perhaps, the Black Network is the Aurum and the Zhents are the Boromars).

As in; the Aurum are the "main" faction of the Zhentarim, while Manshoon and his loyalists are replaced by the Boromars? I could see that; though I'd lean more towards House Tarkanan in this case. The Aurum and House Tarkanan have a common enemy (the Dragonmarked Houses) and I could see a potential alliance between them, leading to whatever split is set up in the adventure.

I am starting to wonder if perhaps Sharn has all most TOO much information, and if an easier transposition would be to set WDH in a city of Aundair, such as Passage or Fairhaven.

I can see the argument for setting Waterdeep somewhere else (while we're at it, Stormreach, Thronehold, or even Korth might make interesting stand-ins for different reasons) but I'm going to make several arguments in favor of sticking to Sharn:

1) The Xanathar Guild (and the Xanathar themself) fit Sharn to a T.
2) The Undermountain. Thinking ahead to the Dungeon of the Mad Mage here, but Sharn is the only city with a well-established dungeon deep within its bowels in The Depths.
3) Considering The Depths' ties to the War of the Mark, it would make sense for House Tarkanan to have an interest in them.
4) There's also plenty of possible tie-ins to who the Mad Mage's counterpart would be. Calderus is currently the Big Bad down there, but I could see potential for a Bigger Bad lurking beneath; perhaps one of the ancient leaders of the Aberrant Dragonmarked, thought dead for millennia?

Waterdeep: Dragon Heist First Impressions

Beth Rimmels

dave2008

Legend

guinbang

Villager

Gradine

The Elephant in the Room (she/her)

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle

MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site

collin

Explorer

pukunui

Legend

Teemu

Hero

robus

Lowcountry Low Roller

Gradine

The Elephant in the Room (she/her)

Similar Threads

Related Articles