[New DM Question] What about Simultaneous Movement?

Travis Henry · Feb 4, 2019

DM Dave1 said:
This interpretation seems incorrect to me. (...) There is no restriction against using the Dash Action in conjunction with Ready.

Ready: "you choose the action you will take in response to that trigger, or you choose to move up to your speed in response to it."

My understanding is that the Readied reaction can either be one Action, or one Move. But a Dash is a Move + Move.

Ovinomancer · Feb 4, 2019

Right, so, the "problem" is trying to adjudicate kinda-non-combat things using the combat rules. Instead, consider what the stated goal is and work with that. In your first example, tge PCs want to run, not fight, so don't roll initiative, just adjudicate the move and have tge goblins shooting as a consequence or danger (like jumping over lava). The cart driver makes a land vehicle check to avoid getting shot, failure means two arrows attack him, and the runner makes an athletics/acrobatics to keep cover, failure means two arrows are shot at him (without cover).

The second can be similar, have the party make a group athletics check to sprint by the guards befire they can react (or a group initiative check). Success means they start the fight on the other side and together, failure means they don't.

The combat rules do not do simulanteous actions. This is a limitation of the game.

Swarmkeeper · Feb 4, 2019

Travis Henry said:
Ready: "you choose the action you will take in response to that trigger, or you choose to move up to your speed in response to it."

My understanding is that the Readied reaction can either be one Action, or one Move. But a Dash is a Move + Move.

I completely see how you might interpret it that way, but Dash is not categorized as Movement in the rules. It is specifically in the Action section and, as an action, it allows you to double your movement (clear as mud, right?). Any Action can be readied. You are gimping Dash if you rule it can't be used with Ready.

[SECTION]Ready
Sometimes you want to get the jump on a foe or wait for a particular circumstance before you act. To do so, you can take the Ready action on your turn so that you can act later in the round using your reaction.

First, you decide what perceivable circumstance will trigger your reaction. Then, you choose the action you will take in response to that trigger, or you choose to move up to your speed in response to it. Examples include “If the cultist steps on the trapdoor, I’ll pull the lever that opens it,” and “If the goblin steps next to me, I move away.”

When the trigger occurs, you can either take your reaction right after the trigger finishes or ignore the trigger. Remember that you can take only one reaction per round.

When you ready a spell, you cast it as normal but hold its energy, which you release with your reaction when the trigger occurs. To be readied, a spell must have a casting time of 1 action, and holding onto the spell’s magic requires concentration (explained in chapter 10). If your concentration is broken, the spell dissipates without taking effect. For example, if you are concentrating on the web spell and ready magic missile, your web spell ends, and if you take damage before you release magic missile with your reaction, your concentration might be broken.[/SECTION]

Satyrn · Feb 4, 2019

In both of your examples, my solution would be to not use the combat rules.

They both look more like chases, where the players are trying to avoid engaging in combat. Since you don't have the DMG you don't have a set of chase rules, though, so you would have to improvise. Here's how I might have improvised:

Example 1: After the player declares he's running alongside the cart as they roll away from the ambush site, I narrate that the whole party gets peppered with arrows, rolling an attack or two against everyone, giving the characters who deserve it the benefit of cover. And then I decide the goblins don't bother giving chase and the party gets away, perhaps a little hurt.

Example 2: Rather than call for Initiative, I'd have called fo a Strength (Athletics) check to determine if the player is fast enough to cover the distance without getting shot. Success means they outrun the goblins reaction time, their arrows clatter off harmlessly against the ealls, floors or whatever. Each player who failed the check gets shot at once, maybe twice if there are a lot of goblins.

Charlaquin · Feb 4, 2019

DM Dave1 said:
I completely see how you might interpret it that way, but Dash is not categorized as Movement in the rules. It is specifically in the Action section and, as an action, it allows you to double your movement (clear as mud, right?). Any Action can be readied. You are gimping Dash if you rule it can't be used with Ready.

Dave, look at what you just said the Dash action does. It allows you to double your movement. It doesn’t actually allow you to move. So, yes, you can Ready a Dash. Then when the trigger happens you’ll have tons of movement and no way to use it, since it’s not your turn.

Granted, that’s kinda dumb, and I wouldn’t fault any DM for ruling that if you Ready a Dash you can also move in response to the trigger, but by a strict reading of RAW it doesn’t work that way.

5ekyu · Feb 4, 2019

If you look in the DMG they establish running chase scenes as narrative versuins of simultaneous moves, not as you go i go.

Iirc they featured some endurance options and athletics checks.

But it establishes the idea iirc and methodology of resolving simultaneous movement instead of you go i go for two folks with one trying to move.

So i might require an athletics check on the part of the convered guy trying to match the dashing cart and if made allow his movement to go on the cart's turn but his action on his own turn.

If the roll failed, he stumbled a bit or the horse took a faster bounce and he acts on his own turn for move and action this time, to show he was exposed for a bit.

The DMG shows a variety of good ways to deal with edge cases.

Bacon Bits · Feb 4, 2019

DEFCON 1 said:
You are in a very familiar situation that most of us have been in. And truthfully, the answer to your question is right in your #3... make a ruling that makes sense for your table.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying that a PC can run alongside and behind a wagon, especially considering the actions are Dashes and thus not even combat per se. That's a perfect example of just waving away the "rules as written" and doing something that makes narrative sense.

Many parts of D&D try and establish rules for the game, but don't make sense for the story. But if your players want to make a narrative choice that makes sense, go ahead and let them. It will make them happy and it will enhance your sense of reality and visualization of the encounter.

Dealing with the Initiative conundrum is one that all of us go through. Another perfect example is everyone all together in like a Mexican standoff situation, and one character in the group decides to suddenly act and thus trigger combat. Same situation of course though... everyone rolls initiative, and somehow the guy who initiated combat ends up going LAST because of a bad roll. Now yes, the explanation will be that everyone "saw" the guy start to attack and thus everyone just jumped the gun and all ended up going first... but that's usually not satisfying either (especially considering all the actions involve running around the battlefield in addition to attacking, and the guy who started the attack just stands there with pudding in hand.)

In situations like that, I have absolutely no qualms about putting the guy who initiated combat at the top of the initiative round and then everyone else falls in behind him. Because rulings, not rules.

Do what makes most sense for your table, and hang what the book says if you don't like it. You don't get any awards for "playing Rules As Written", so don't feel you need to if another ruling outside of the book makes sense.

I agree wholeheartedly. The rules are there to be a tool for the game. For combat rules, it's important to understand that the purpose of those rules is to make play flow evenly and comprehensibly. The initiative rules are there just so you can be sure that people only do things as fast as they should be able to. But that doesn't mean you don't want to ignore them when it makes sense. To paraphrase the old saying, "The Player's Handbook is not a suicide pact."

Moving with moving cover, jumping distances farther than your movement might allow (particularly with magic), shield-wielding spellcasters juggling melee weapons to cast a spell, etc. There are myriad areas where the rules of the game get super fiddley, and that fiddleyness doesn't add all that much to the game. The rules are useful for understanding what the intended limits of actions are, but they shouldn't be used blindly or so strictly that the game suffers for following the rules. You're at the table to play the game, not to execute the rules.

iserith · Feb 4, 2019

Charlaquin said:
Dave, look at what you just said the Dash action does. It allows you to double your movement. It doesn’t actually allow you to move. So, yes, you can Ready a Dash. Then when the trigger happens you’ll have tons of movement and no way to use it, since it’s not your turn.

Granted, that’s kinda dumb, and I wouldn’t fault any DM for ruling that if you Ready a Dash you can also move in response to the trigger, but by a strict reading of RAW it doesn’t work that way.

Readying a Dash is a waste. But you can Ready movement. So at least there's that.

Charlaquin · Feb 4, 2019

iserith said:
Readying a Dash is a waste. But you can Ready movement. So at least there's that.

Precisely, and hence the OP’s dilemma - if two PCs want to move simultaneously in combat, they are unable to move at twice their speed.

To the OP: If your issue is that you have difficulty aligning the mechanics with the fiction, consider that the two characters who plan to move simpultaneously need to spend some amount of time syncing up. Instead of each running as fast as they can and the one with faster reflexes getting ahead faster, they agree to run on the count of three or some other signal, so they move together, but cannot take full advantage of the 6-second period that a turn approximates as a result.

On the other hand, your game definitely won’t break if you allow players to Ready an action and movement with the Ready action instead of only one or the other.

KarinsDad · Feb 4, 2019

Another simple solution is to rule that the PC is doing simultaneous movement, but that he gets the 1/2 or 3/4ths cover. On his turn, he must dash his PC up to the cart.

[New DM Question] What about Simultaneous Movement?

Travis Henry

First Post

Ovinomancer

No flips for you!

Swarmkeeper

Hero

Satyrn

First Post

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)

5ekyu

Hero

Bacon Bits

Hero

iserith

Magic Wordsmith

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)

KarinsDad

Adventurer

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