Do you want Greyhawk updated to 5e?

LuisCarlos17f · Feb 27, 2019

Maybe the solution is the time spheres from AD&D Chronomancer. The time sphere would be like a demiplane, a Uchrony or alternative timeline, a parallel earth. This would allow D&D worlds with changes, and the same worlds like twin brothers but where nothing has changed. But we would need a good explanation about what happened to Athas(Dark Sun) and Barovia (Ravenloft).

Demetrios1453 · Feb 27, 2019

Bacon Bits said:
So, both of your responses to the statement that they don't really do anything with Greyhawk and set everything in FR is that the module they're only just now reprinting was originally only minimally located in Greyhawk and, at best, remains equally minimally Greyhawk? Wow, WotC's really jumping into the deep end with both feet here!

Exactly how many campaign settings have you read that have detailed notes about the culture, population, demographics, imports/exports, geographic features, rulers, alignment, history, deities, locations, etc. of a sea itself? Not the cities that surround it. The sea itself. In my experience there's usually a blurb that says if it's fresh or salt water, what lives in the sea, and then merely describes it as a path for commerce and transportation. If we were to take our map of Toril and pluck out "Inner Sea" and replace it with "Nyr Dyv", what does that actually change? Now what happens when you pluck out Waterdeep and replace it with Greyhawk, populace and all?

What does any of that last paragraph have to do with Saltmarsh and U1?

Paul Farquhar · Feb 27, 2019

Bacon Bits said:
So, both of your responses to the statement that they don't really do anything with Greyhawk and set everything in FR is that the module they're only just now reprinting was originally only minimally located in Greyhawk and, at best, remains equally minimally Greyhawk?

I would dispute that Saltmarsh was originally set in Greyhawk. Tonally, the setting resembles 17th century Cornwall, Norfolk or Massachusetts. There was nothing in any Greyhawk material published at the time to suggest that Keoland was anything like that. It's quite clear that the adventure was originally set in the author's homebrew setting, and was moved to the current official AD&D setting upon publication.

Bacon Bits · Feb 27, 2019

Demetrios1453 said:
What does any of that last paragraph have to do with Saltmarsh and U1?

You tell me. You're the one that said replacing a country was the same as replacing a sea.

Jer · Feb 27, 2019

I can't figure out how to answer this question.

Because what does it mean to "update" Greyhawk to 5e? The core rules for Greyhawk shouldn't be any different than the basic core - if they are, then 5e has failed to capture the essence of D&D in the way that 5e fans - including myself - think it does. IMO part of what it means to be D&D is that you can run a campaign set in Greyhawk using the rules. So no need for new rules, and if you look at the TOC for the Wayfarer's Guide to Eberron, "new rules to make the setting work" and "here's how core thing X works in Eberron" is more than a third of the content in the book.

The atlas and maps? The 1st edition box set is still the Gold Standard IMO for Greyhawk, and it's available via PDF for those who don't own it. I'd want any update to work from that and treat the setting like Eberron - from a publication standpoint fixed in time even as our own campaigns take it in new directions. I'm hard-pressed to think of what additional material I'd want beyond what's in that core box set. Maybe more adventure sites and old ruins scattered around the map, and more discussion of adventures in the City of Greyhawk, but I'm a sucker for that kind of stuff. (I can see how some folks would want to start it from the end of the Wars boxed set, but you asked what I wanted and I don't actually want that - I want that to be a possible campaign you can run in Greyhawk, not canonical "here's what happened in Greyhawk").

Monsters? I can't think of any monsters that are pure Greyhawk because Greyhawk was the setting that you took stuff from to put in your own game. Any monster that would be "iconically Greyhawk" would essentially be "iconically D&D" and so should already be in one of the monster books somewhere. And if it isn't, well it could be - you don't need to update Greyhawk to bring back old creatures.

That leaves stats for major NPCs, which I don't really need but I guess I can see how some would. But to me that's not enough to fill a whole setting book on its own.

That's one of the problems with updating Greyhawk - if you're already a fan of the setting and own the existing material, there isn't a lot there that needs to be updated that hasn't already appeared somewhere among the core books. Greyhawk is just such a "core D&D" setting that it just works out of the box with 5e without needing to do much.

TwoSix · Feb 27, 2019

Jester David said:
I don't think I like the idea that every setting needs to advance their timeline between 119 and 133 years, reflecting the passage of time between the 3e & 2e Forgotten Realms (when the other campaign settings would have last been published) and the current FR date. It's just easier to assume time passes differently in the different lands. If you even want to set a campaign in the "present".

To that point, I don't think there's anything in 5e published material that points to the idea of the "D&D Multiverse" as being a cohesive setting with direct linkages; the designers seem to view the setting design as more of an anthology or a shared universe.

Jer · Feb 27, 2019

TwoSix said:
To that point, I don't think there's anything in 5e published material that points to the idea of the "D&D Multiverse" as being a cohesive setting with direct linkages; the designers seem to view the setting design as more of an anthology or a shared universe.

I much prefer this model. The fact that Eberron gets updated to new rules without advancing its timeline is one of the best choices they made. Every version of Eberron is its own - we all start from the same starting point, and how the setting gets changed is all unique to our own campaigns. And it also means that all of the adventure material created is always relevant if I start a new campaign - I don't have to decide if certain adventures no longer "work" because of how the timeline has changed.