Recommend Some Rules Lite Systems

Retreater · Mar 5, 2019

I have a friend who's looking into shifting his PF1 group into something more rules lite. I think the fantasy theme is important. I also think having at least some passing semblance to PF would be a good idea.
So what are some systems I can help expose to him? (Obviously 5E is a good idea, but maybe something like Castles and Crusades would be even closer to PF feel?)

Kurviak · Mar 5, 2019

Retreater said:
I have a friend who's looking into shifting his PF1 group into something more rules lite. I think the fantasy theme is important. I also think having at least some passing semblance to PF would be a good idea.
So what are some systems I can help expose to him? (Obviously 5E is a good idea, but maybe something like Castles and Crusades would be even closer to PF feel?)

"Rules Light" is very open to interpretation, but I don't consider neither 5e nor C&C really light. Dungeon World may be the lightest you can get in a not retro clone format that is still close to D&D/Pathfinder

Retreater · Mar 5, 2019

Kurviak said:
"Rules Light" is very open to interpretation, but I don't consider neither 5e nor C&C really light. Dungeon World may be the lightest you can get in a not retro clone format that is still close to D&D/Pathfinder

I'm considering either D&D 5e or C&C as substantially less rules complex than PF1.
I've played and GMed Dungeon World. I think it is incredibly different than PF (or really any other non Apocalypse Engine game). All it really has in common with D&D is a fantasy trope, right?

Kurviak · Mar 5, 2019

Retreater said:
I'm considering either D&D 5e or C&C as substantially less rules complex than PF1.
I've played and GMed Dungeon World. I think it is incredibly different than PF (or really any other non Apocalypse Engine game). All it really has in common with D&D is a fantasy trope, right?

You’re right, if you’re looking for something closer you should also consider 13th Age RPG

MNblockhead · Mar 5, 2019

Try Index Card RPG (ICRPG) for a multi-genre, rules-light system that is still loosely based on a d20 system: https://www.icrpg.com/

Jacob Lewis · Mar 5, 2019

Try the Pathfinder Beginner Boxed set? It is still regarded as one of the better starter kits for any RPG, complete with a set of pawns and bases that just makes the value over the top. And there is some good fan work out there to incorporate more ootions into the simpler, and sometimes preferred, streamline approach of this set.

Celebrim · Mar 5, 2019

There is only one Rules Light system that I admire and think is suitable for running a long running game under, and that's 'Dogs In The Vineyard'. Ironically, I would never actually use 'Dogs In the Vineyard' for its intended setting, but for example, if I wanted to run a Star Trek game, I'd use 'Dogs In the Vineyard' as a the engine for that. Indeed, almost any story where most of the conflict was dialogue and intellectual, I'd run the game using the DitV rules.

There are a few 'rules medium' rules sets that border or are arguably rules light that I like. For example, I consider Gumshoe a good rules engine for what it does.

But, I think by asking for 'rules light' you are really just asking for 'lighter than Pathfinder and I can run a D&D style game in it'. In that case, you probably don't actually want a rules light game, but something that offers somewhat satisfying physical conflict and doesn't require a lot of player thespian skill and metagaming. In that case, my recommendation would be D&D 5e. If that's still too heavy, a lot of people enjoy Savage Age. Personally though I think you are going to find you want more crunch than Savage Age gives.

Ralif Redhammer · Mar 5, 2019

Castles & Crusades or Labyrinth Lord would definitely be an easy transition from Pathfinder, I'd think. Between the two, I think C&C has enough options to not be a complete switch-up from Pathfinder, while still having a quick-to-understand and play rules system.

Aldarc · Mar 5, 2019

Index Card RPG: a d20-based system by Hankerin Ferinale (RuneHammer). Technically classless and levelless. It uses modifiers for stats. Point buy your attributes and a few other abilities, including your armor, weapon damage, and effort.* Your items give you further bonuses. Also it generally applies a singular difficulty rating for an encounter. So a room may have a difficulty of 13, meaning every task (disarming a trap, stealthing, perceiving, etc.) and monster AC in this room will be 13. But this can be adjusted for easy things in the room (-3) or challenging things (+3).

* Effort is kind of like damage for non-combat related tasks. A chest may basically have the equivalent of 10 HP. So the rogue who is unlocking the chest, may require multiple successful rounds to unlock the chest. With each succesful Dex check, allowing them to dwinde the chest's "HP" down to 0 using their effort rolls.

13th Age: Nice mix of 3E and 4E. It's lighter than Pathfinder but still rules medium.

Shadow of the Demon Lord: a d20 system by Robert Schwalb that is similar to 5E, but with more complex of character build options. Pick any Novice path (priest, warrior, magician, rogue). Then you can pick any Expert path (e.g., wizard, artificer, ranger, fighter, druid, cleric, paladin, warlock, etc.) no matter what you picked for your novice path. But what! There's more. And this also includes being able to pick any Master path (e.g., Necromancer, Bard, Illustionist, Mage Knight, Cavalier, Acrobat, Gunslinger, etc.) or a second Expert path. Mix and match to your heart's content across 10 levels. Every level is the completion of an adventure of the appropriate tier (1-3; 4-6; 7-9). The default setting is a bit dismally dark and cynical, but you can easily strip it away. Oh, and I think that most tasks are resolved by rolling over 10.

GreyLord · Mar 5, 2019

Retreater said:
I have a friend who's looking into shifting his PF1 group into something more rules lite. I think the fantasy theme is important. I also think having at least some passing semblance to PF would be a good idea.
So what are some systems I can help expose to him? (Obviously 5E is a good idea, but maybe something like Castles and Crusades would be even closer to PF feel?)

You are right in that if you want a rules lite system currently, C&C is probably the closest you can get to Pathfinder as a rather easy and quick system to understand. It has many similarities with Pathfinder, but because it is a lot liter and less complex there is also a lot less ability to modify characters as you want.

I love Castles and Crusades. It was the last system that Gary Gygax was working through in order to publish his Castle Zagyg (otherwise known as a recreation/revamp of Castle Greyhawk).

That would probably be my primary choice in the same situation as you are in.

If you are looking for something that is still complex but slightly less complex than the main core rules of Pathfinder, Jacob Lewis's idea of the Beginner Box is also an excellent suggestion. You basically use the Beginner Box rules for various things, and if you still want to use the classes, skills, feats, and spells of Pathfinder you can but using the BB rules instead.

A little further out and a middle ground between C&C and the Beginner Box is Fantasy Age. It is a little less like Pathfinder than the other two listed above, but has ideas a little reminiscent of them. It's a tad more complex than C&C, less so than the Beginner Box probably, but has a lot of functionality for those who want to be able to modify characters as they desire. I really enjoy Fantasy Age as well.