D&D 5E So...keelboats

Paul Farquhar

Legend

• May 24, 2019

• #11

I think anachronism would work fine for an elven ship, which is what was suggested.

As for longships, they probably where the most advanced seafaring vessels of their time.

 

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FitzTheRuke

Legend

• May 24, 2019

• #12

The weapons and armour span a thousand years or more in D&D, so I'm fine with the ships doing the same. (Though I agree, we generally want to avoid getting too much past 16th century within reason). I agree that elves should be able to have slightly more "advanced" ships, at least when it comes to maneuverability.

 

FitzTheRuke

Legend

• May 24, 2019

• #13

Paul Farquhar said:

On a longship, there wouldn't be distinction between "crew" and "passengers". They would all be vikings and would all be expected to take a turn on the oars and fight on land. 100 Vikings in total would be reasonable, and the stats are right at the upper end of the size range for such a vessel. They probably where the most advanced seafaring vessels of their time.

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Right, but these rules suggest you can add a hundred idle landsmen regularly aboard with your crew of forty and cross the ocean.

 

Hussar

Legend

• May 25, 2019

• #14

Paul Farquhar said:

I think anachronism would work fine for an elven ship, which is what was suggested.

As for longships, they probably where the most advanced seafaring vessels of their time.

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Umm, not even remotely. The Chinese were sailing around the world while the Vikings could barely leave the North Atlantic.

Why would elves have better ships than everyone else? It's not like there's anything in Elven lore to suggest they make good sailors and, in fact, given that they don't usually like folks cutting down trees, it's not like they are big on building ships. I could see elves using magic to cross water more than being centuries more advanced in ship building techniques when nothing else in their culture is particularly more advanced than anyone else.

Or, put it another way, they were using galleons after the American Revolutionary War. We're talking some very, very serious anachronism here.

 

77IM

Explorer!!!

Supporter

• May 25, 2019

• #15

Hussar said:

Well, the problem you get into here is anachronism.

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Anachronisms in D&D? I think that ship has sailed.

 

Paul Farquhar

Legend

• May 25, 2019

• #16

FitzTheRuke said:

Right, but these rules suggest you can add a hundred idle landsmen regularly aboard with your crew of forty and cross the ocean.

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True, I wasn't defending them - the book would have benefited from much better researched naval history.

 

Last edited: May 25, 2019

Paul Farquhar

Legend

• May 25, 2019

• #17

Hussar said:

Umm, not even remotely. The Chinese were sailing around the world while the Vikings could barely leave the North Atlantic.

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I don't know what history books you have been reading (perhaps produced by the Chinese Communist party?) but that's rubbish. The ancient Chinese achieved many things, but great explorers they weren't. The Polynesian people travelled much further in that part of the world - their ships where basic, but their navigation was far superior. As for the vikings, they explored the Mediterranean and North Africa as well as crossing the Atlantic. And they went to (and settled) Russia too, because longships can also navigate rivers and be carried over land by their crew.

Why would elves have better ships than everyone else?

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Why not? It's not like D&D is a history simulator, and in the real world technology has always varied across different regions and cultures.

 

S

S'mon

Legend

• May 25, 2019

• #18

I think it's established the Qeng Ho fleet did go all over and at the time Chinese ship technology was advanced. The problem was cultural.

 

mach1.9pants

Hero

• May 25, 2019

• #19

OOC:

S'mon said:

I think it's established the Qeng Ho fleet did go all over and at the time Chinese ship technology was advanced. The problem was cultural.

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we're talking real world not sci fi!

Maybe you mean Zheng He, who Qeng Ho was named after, I think

And it's certainly not established, very much debated "There is still much debate about issues such as the actual purpose of the voyages, the size of the ships, the magnitude of the fleet, the routes taken, the nautical charts employed, the countries visited, and the cargo carried."

But still impressive stuff, even the bits that are not debated

 

Last edited: May 25, 2019

FitzTheRuke

Legend

• May 25, 2019

• #20

Speaking of the Chinese and the Polynesians, that's another thing that mildly annoys me about these ship rules. They're too Eurocentric. D&D nicely represents many different cultures. Rise of Tiamat has the Ice Hunters of the Sea of Moving Ice with Kayaks (they call them Kyeks, I think) and Tomb of Annihilation has a large, six-person Canoe for sale.

I'd have liked to see a good Polynesian outrigger or catamaran as well. How about the Philipino Karakoa? I dunno, some variety would have been interesting.

Speaking of which, while we are on the subject of Elves. That would have been interesting too. Why not get a few of the artists to do some imaginings of what an Elf ship would look like? Even if they conclude, like Hussar, that elves shouldn't have "better" ships than everyone else (it's a good argument, I think), they'd probably at least have "pretty" ships, wouldn't they? What's a dwarf ship like?