D&D 5E What levels are the most important when talking balance?

Stalker0 · Jul 14, 2019

A constant theme of balance discussions is what levels you are discussing them. Many things have different balance perspective depending on what levels you consider them.

But even though dnd has levels 1-20, its common knowledge that the majority of games don't play the full level range. There are many a group that will never play a 20th level character, and so balance discussions at that level....are effectively a waste of time.

So what level range do you think is the most important to get balance "right"?

ccs · Jul 14, 2019

1-10.

5ekyu · Jul 14, 2019

5-10 most important
1-4 next
11-15 next
16+ hardly matters

Quartz · Jul 14, 2019

S'mon · Jul 14, 2019

I tend to play across the whole level range, so I'd say 5-10 is most important but I expect the game to work at all levels and I certainly want 1-15 to be workable. 3e/PF problems at 7+ are a major issue for me since the APs typically go ca 1-15.

Gladius Legis · Jul 14, 2019

I'd rank them:
1) 5-10
2) 11-15
*dropoff*
3) 16-20
4) 1-4

5-10 is obvious because it's where the meat of most campaigns take place. 11-15 is second because it's where a lot of campaigns are in their final stages.

While 16-20 is pretty rare, hence a distant third on this list, it is more important to consider than 1-4 in my eyes. 1-4 go by very quickly. In fact, many tables skip at least the first two levels of that range altogether. And with fewer elements to consider, 1-4 kinda balances itself out with minimal active effort to do so anyway.

Blue · Jul 14, 2019

I'd go for 1-12 and then something high, with more of a focus on levels 3-11 and something in tier 4. If you're looking for as pared down as possible, I'd look 3-5, 8, 11, 17 and 20.

Levels 1-12 cover most games, but many of the games I've been in have either accelerated advancement until 3rd or 5th, or started at those levels instead of 1st.

Levels 5 & 11 are power bumps for non-multiclassed characters, so are important when discussing balance. 3rd is where almost all subclasses start, so also important for balance discussions, which will bleed over to over character levels for multiclassed characters.

4 & 8 are your first ASI/feat choices - first two picks will almost always be high effect on a build, then it starts to decrease in utility slightly.

The "something high" is that sometimes class skills cascade and multiply with each other and throw things out of balance, and also at those levels many of the sins of multiclassing will be wiped out so you might have something unbalanced. I was a bit capricious in picking 17 and 20 - 17 is the point where you hit maximum proficiency, highest level spells (both full and half casters), most ASIs, while 20 is your capstone - or if you don't want it then a chance to grab some multiclass levels "for free" (no opportunity cost).

Shiroiken · Jul 14, 2019

The "meat" of the game takes place between 5-10, but most campaigns run both before and after these levels. If they focused on setting the balance by tiers, they could do a better job of overall balance, but then they'd have issues with groups that use the standard xp rules because once one member of the party jumps to the next tier, it gets unbalanced for everyone else.

FrogReaver · Jul 14, 2019

Stalker0 said:
A constant theme of balance discussions is what levels you are discussing them. Many things have different balance perspective depending on what levels you consider them.

But even though dnd has levels 1-20, its common knowledge that the majority of games don't play the full level range. There are many a group that will never play a 20th level character, and so balance discussions at that level....are effectively a waste of time.

So what level range do you think is the most important to get balance "right"?

Sadly - All of them.

Even if you get 1-10 or whatever perfectly balanced, if some classes are much better later then they will be chosen more all else being equal.

Fenris-77 · Jul 14, 2019

I think calling the range 1-15 sounds about right, which make the levels to look at first 3/5/11 as mentioned above. The archetype plus those two big power jumps are where I'd start. Even if you just used 5 and 11 as the key benchmarks for balance in that range you'd probably be fine.