D&D General What Should Magic Be Able To Do, From a Gameplay Design Standpoint?

[James Gasik]

Um, a question here:

"Clerics get to skip the squishy and vulnerable bit but I still want their spells to be interruptable and capable of generating nasty consequences when messed up. Example: a cleric PC in my game was once casting Cure Light Wounds in mid-combat on a down-but-not-dead party member, he got interrupted and the spell reversed into Cause Light Wounds, killing the downed character instead of healing it. (the lesson here is don't cast spells while in reach of a melee opponent!)"

Given that Cure Light Wounds is a melee range spell, what exactly is the benefit of saying "but if your ally is dying and there is an enemy near you, there's a chance that your attempt to heal actually kills the target"? You say "well this teaches a lesson", and I'm wondering how that lesson isn't "let your allies die".

What other option is there? Attack the foe in melee while your ally bleeds out? I guess "cast a ranged spell" could be an option, but then again, maybe it isn't. Sure, you could cast Hold Person on the enemy, but meanwhile, your ally is dying. What's the point of combat healing if you can't use it, you know, in combat?

 

[TiQuinn]

Um, a question here:

"Clerics get to skip the squishy and vulnerable bit but I still want their spells to be interruptable and capable of generating nasty consequences when messed up. Example: a cleric PC in my game was once casting Cure Light Wounds in mid-combat on a down-but-not-dead party member, he got interrupted and the spell reversed into Cause Light Wounds, killing the downed character instead of healing it. (the lesson here is don't cast spells while in reach of a melee opponent!)"

Given that Cure Light Wounds is a melee range spell, what exactly is the benefit of saying "but if your ally is dying and there is an enemy near you, there's a chance that your attempt to heal actually kills the target"? You say "well this teaches a lesson", and I'm wondering how that lesson isn't "let your allies die".

What other option is there? Attack the foe in melee while your ally bleeds out? I guess "cast a ranged spell" could be an option, but then again, maybe it isn't. Sure, you could cast Hold Person on the enemy, but meanwhile, your ally is dying. What's the point of combat healing if you can't use it, you know, in combat?

This struck me as weird and I really don’t see “reversal of spell’s effect” in the DCC Cleric disapproval table.

Maybe this was a custom penalty? Also clerics lay on hands with a spell check as an ability. It’s not reversible into damage like in 1e…but maybe that’s a spot DM ruling too.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

I'm assuming it must be a standard result on a table that is rolled on every time a spell fails.

I don't believe that a DM would houserule "your character dies" in a situation where that wasn't usually a risk.

 

[Lanefan]

I'm assuming it must be a standard result on a table that is rolled on every time a spell fails.

I don't believe that a DM would houserule "your character dies" in a situation where that wasn't usually a risk.

Replying to three posts in one here...

You're correct about the table. If a spell is interrupted there's a roughly 50-50 risk of a wild magic surge (WMS). If a surge occurs due to an interrupted spell, one of the more likely options on a rather extensive chart is "Spell reverses, if possible (if not, roll again)". Not all spells have an obvious reverse function, and for some the reverse function is trivial (e.g. an interrupted Light might get you Darkness instead), but sometimes it can be a real nuisance as in the Cure-turned-to-Cause Wounds example.

As for the "lesson learned" piece, to me the lesson is to spend a round dragging the fallen ally away from melee before starting a cure, meanwhile hoping another ally can keep trouble off your back. Corollary lesson: use a potion rather than a spell in this situation, if you have one, because potions can't usually be interrupted (reality tells us an unconscious person can and will still swallow liquid if administered by another). If that's not possible, often the best remaining option is to continue fighting, hope the fallen ally holds out long enough, and leave the curing until after the combat is over.

The specific intention behind all this is to prevent spellcasting in melee (and thus rein in caster power some) by simply making it more risky than it's worth, as any disturbance blows the spell*. Sometimes they'll take the risk anyway; and when it goes wrong, that's what the WMS table is for.

* - in hopeless situations it also gives casters one last quasi-nuclear option: cast anything, let it be interrupted, and hope for a surge that somehow bails you out. I've seen this tactic go very very right and also very very wrong, and it's always good entertainment.