D&D 2E 2e, the most lethal edition?

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
From memory you only need to roll 1 12. Whatever you roll plus modifiers is multiplied by 3.

Incorrect. You only multiply the static bonuses for strength, weapon plusses, etc. The extra crit dice were rolled.

From page 134 of the 3.5 PHB.

"His critical multiplier with a greataxe is ×3, so if he scores a critical hit with that weapon, he would roll 1d12+4 points of damage three times (the same as rolling 3d12+12)."
 

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Zardnaar

Legend
Incorrect. You only multiply the static bonuses for strength, weapon plusses, etc. The extra crit dice were rolled.

From page 134 of the 3.5 PHB.

"His critical multiplier with a greataxe is ×3, so if he scores a critical hit with that weapon, he would roll 1d12+4 points of damage three times (the same as rolling 3d12+12)."

Ah ok we played it wrong. We either carried it over from 3.0 or got it wrong in 3.0 as well.
 

billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him)
Ah ok we played it wrong. We either carried it over from 3.0 or got it wrong in 3.0 as well.

You got it wrong in 3.0 as well.

But that orc's stat block in 3.0 did include the great axe (for 1d12+3). On a crit, he was extremely unlikely to roll 45 points of damage. However, on a crit, he does a mean of 28.5 points of damage. That's why he was revamped for 3.5 to use a falchion. He crits a bit more often, but with a much less extreme spike.
 

Sacrosanct

Legend
Well, one thing is for certain. The premise of evaluating editions by lethality based on RAW only is inherently flawed because RAW in 1e, upon careful analysis, contain several contradictions within themselves, and enough ambiguity to make objective unified interpretation impossible. Lesson learned for me there.

We can evaluate editions based on RAW for pretty much every edition except 1e and OD&D for this reason. And then I suppose lump 1e anywhere from most lethal to third lethal, depending on how people interpreted rules.
 

Jer

Legend
Supporter
We can evaluate editions based on RAW for pretty much every edition except 1e and OD&D for this reason. And then I suppose lump 1e anywhere from most lethal to third lethal, depending on how people interpreted rules.

I think you're making a mistake in thinking that you can get people to objectively evaluate editions based on RAW prior to 3e. Because it wasn't until 3e came out that there was an accepted practice across the whole community of even trying to play the RAW or that the books had any more authority than the house rules that the DM had been playing with for 15 years (or, for that matter, than the 1e books). 3e shifted the mentality of the broader D&D community that migrated to it towards a mentality that had previously been the bastion of players who had migrated to games like Champions or GURPS - the idea that the rules were there to be learned and adhered to rather than just act as a collection of suggestions on how you could run your game if you chose to (and by the same token the expectation that the rules were coherent enough to be able to be used as written without needing to patch them up with your own duct tape and bailing wire - the perception of the latter drives the former, and vice-versa).

So people's memories aren't going to line up with what is clearly the case if you do as you say and look at the rules as written - 2e was a mess of a ruleset that ended up deadlier than 1e if you played RAW because the people who folded it all together and revised it didn't quite understand the impact of the changes they made. But it didn't matter because the community for the most part self-corrected and ignored the parts where they screwed up. Because nobody cared about RAW.
 

Sacrosanct

Legend
I think you're making a mistake in thinking that you can get people to objectively evaluate editions based on RAW prior to 3e. Because it wasn't until 3e came out that there was an accepted practice across the whole community of even trying to play the RAW or that the books had any more authority than the house rules that the DM had been playing with for 15 years (or, for that matter, than the 1e books). 3e shifted the mentality of the broader D&D community that migrated to it towards a mentality that had previously been the bastion of players who had migrated to games like Champions or GURPS - the idea that the rules were there to be learned and adhered to rather than just act as a collection of suggestions on how you could run your game if you chose to (and by the same token the expectation that the rules were coherent enough to be able to be used as written without needing to patch them up with your own duct tape and bailing wire - the perception of the latter drives the former, and vice-versa).

So people's memories aren't going to line up with what is clearly the case if you do as you say and look at the rules as written - 2e was a mess of a ruleset that ended up deadlier than 1e if you played RAW because the people who folded it all together and revised it didn't quite understand the impact of the changes they made. But it didn't matter because the community for the most part self-corrected and ignored the parts where they screwed up. Because nobody cared about RAW.

Maybe. I mean, I started playing in 1981 in small town Alaska and small town Oregon. And even then, we tried to stick with what was “the standard”. We had conventions, tournaments with RPGA, and even small towns like mine had Dragon magazine where many of the articles were around standards of play.

By the very nature on how 1e was written (with contradictions within the rulebooks themselves), of course every table varied a bit. But with 2e, I noticed much less variance from table to table. I was overseas for most of the 90s in the military, and had tables move constantly. Probably played with hundreds of different people as people got deployed, returned home, etc. and 2e was for the most part very consistent in how people played it. So I think it started in 2e with much easier to interpret rules
 

Zardnaar

Legend
You got it wrong in 3.0 as well.

But that orc's stat block in 3.0 did include the great axe (for 1d12+3). On a crit, he was extremely unlikely to roll 45 points of damage. However, on a crit, he does a mean of 28.5 points of damage. That's why he was revamped for 3.5 to use a falchion. He crits a bit more often, but with a much less extreme spike.

19 years of doing it wrong. I think the 45 damage didn't specify 3.0 or 3..5 and I remember Ed great aces as well. Also remembered falchion s which were 3.5 iirc.

Still less chance than dying to a bee sting and those suckers are in a few B/X low level adventures.

Death from massive damage in 2E would be rare as 50 damage was difficult to inflict outside of dragon breath weapon maybe a high level thief backstab
 




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