Eberron in the Great Wheel cosmology AND Eberronspace

dead · Sep 1, 2004

I was comtemplating buying Eberron but it will have to fit within my Great Wheel cosmology which has Oerth, Toril, and Krynn using the SAME Outer Planes (ie. how it was back in 1E/2E).

Also, Eberron will have to fit within my Spelljammer cosmology (ie. the Prime Material Plane is made up of the Phlogiston with many Crystal Spheres [each encasing a campaign setting] bobbing about in it).

So I just have some questions:

1) How many Eberron gods are there? Is it a finite or infinite pantheon and will the Eberron gods *make sense* if their homes are in the Infinite Layers of the Abyss, the Heroic Domains of Ysgard, etc., etc?

2) What is the Eberron solar system like? How many planets are there? Is there any life (or gods!) living on the moons and planets of the Eberron setting?

3) Are there any major rules changes for the Eberron setting? You see, Greyhawk, Dragonlance, and FR all use the corerules with a few added bits here and there so planar travelers have no difficulty travelling from world to world. (The only hairy one is Dragonlance when other-worldly priests visit [ie. they can't cast spells!].)

Thanks.

Stone Dog · Sep 1, 2004

Well, the pantheon is finite to be sure, but two religions are straight up philosophies (Blood of Vol and the Path of Light) without gods, the Silver Flame is definately kicking it on the Prime (easily enough moved to Mt Celestia or Arcadia with an immobile avatar) and the others probably have one big palace on Elysium (Sovereign Host) and The Gray Waste (The Dark Six) with summer homes in places they are more fond of. The Cults of the Dragon Below are just that, cults, aligned with the powers of Xoriat and probably their share of demons. The Undying Court is definately manifest on the Prime, but sliding a chapter house over with the rest of the elves isn't too far of a reach.

The solar system hasn't been defined outside of the moons and the one planet.

As for the rules, they don't change at all. It was going to be that turning or rebuking undead was going to be based on the religion of the church and not of the cleric, but the powers that be thought this would be confusing somehow.

[edit] Oh, and clerics can be any alignment they want regardless of the alignment of the church. Forgot about that one.

Does that help?

dead · Sep 1, 2004

Stone Dog said:
Does that help?

Yes, it does help. Thanks.

You got me wondering about something else, though.

So the elves worship the Undying Court?

Who do the dwarves, halflings, gnomes, orcs, etc. worship?

Would it be too much of a stretch to insert the *generic* non-human pantheon of D&D; ie. Correllon Larethian (elves), Moradin (dwarves), Garl Glittergold (gnomes), Yondalla (halflings), etc.? I mean, this isn't essential, though, because Dragonlance doesn't have these gods.

MavrickWeirdo · Sep 1, 2004

dead said:
I was comtemplating buying Eberron but it will have to fit within my Great Wheel cosmology which has Oerth, Toril, and Krynn using the SAME Outer Planes (ie. how it was back in 1E/2E).

Also, Eberron will have to fit within my Spelljammer cosmology (ie. the Prime Material Plane is made up of the Phlogiston with many Crystal Spheres [each encasing a campaign setting] bobbing about in it).

So I just have some questions:

1) How many Eberron gods are there? Is it a finite or infinite pantheon and will the Eberron gods *make sense* if their homes are in the Infinite Layers of the Abyss, the Heroic Domains of Ysgard, etc., etc?

2) What is the Eberron solar system like? How many planets are there? Is there any life (or gods!) living on the moons and planets of the Eberron setting?

3) Are there any major rules changes for the Eberron setting? You see, Greyhawk, Dragonlance, and FR all use the corerules with a few added bits here and there so planar travelers have no difficulty travelling from world to world. (The only hairy one is Dragonlance when other-worldly priests visit [ie. they can't cast spells!].)

Thanks.

It takes a very strong shoehorn to fit Ebberon into the Great Wheel. It has a seperate cosmology entirely. It is a "Pocket Prime" with it's own higher & lower "pocket planes" which all float around the Astral Plane.

The gods don't live on any plane connected to Eberron, and in fact there is no concrete evidence that they exist.

Religions:
Silver Flame is a monotheistic religion which worships a pillar of silver flame. non-anthropomorfic

Sovereign Host; a panthion of 9 gods & goddesses worshiped by most races.
Dark Six; Six gods thrown out of the soveriegn host

Blood of Vol, (Un)death Cult

Cults of the Dragon Below, Abberant Cults (usually lead by an Ilithid, or Beholder, ect.)

Path of Light, Psionic/Monk religion alot like silver flame, but less tangible

Undying court: Ancestor worship

Druids

Other religions are allowed.

Ebberron has 1 sun, 12 visible moons, and a ring of Shards (there may also be a 13th moon which is missing.) No other planets have been suggested. The nature of the moons and the ring is being kept Mysterous.

At present the recomended method of reaching Eberron from another Prime is through the Astral, Ethereal, or Shadow Planes, or as we say in New England "You can't get there from here."

BrooklynKnight · Sep 1, 2004

Let me elaborate on the above.

The Church of the Silver Flame is a religious organization that centers around the worship of what has become a Silver Flame in Thrane. Within the plane are three seprate entities. A Demon, a Celestial, and a Paladin. The Flame formed when the Demon and Celestial, locked in combat inside an evil flame, were joined by a Paladin, who sacrificed herself and somehow speared all 3 of them together on her sword. The church is lawful good, but some belive that the demon whispers to those that follow the flame as well. The church contests this "legend".

The Blood of Vol is a religion focused on, blood. To be more specific, blood and the energies that lie within it that have power over life, and death, and undeath. Most of its followers do not know the true nature of the religion. It is led by a Elf Half Green Dragon Lich, Vol. Bearer of the, now dormant and belived dead, 13th Dragonmark. The Lich still "lives' today at the Lazaar Principialities (i think). This of course is a secret.

The Soverign Host refers to an entire Pantheon of Deities. The Dark Six is technically part of this pantheon but is the evil half, cast out and followed by evil individuals.

The Dragon Below is not really a single religion so much as a gathering and smathering of indivduals who worship the Khyber, Underdark, Demons, and Aberrations left over from Xoriat.

The Path of Light, i belive is an order of psionics worshippers, though they have clerics too. They worship the perfection of the mind and body. I could be mixed up here, but I dont have my books on hand to check.

The Undying Court finds its base on the Elven Island of Aerenal. The Elves worship their ancestors. So much so that their oldest, on the brink of death, move on and become undying. These undying "live" within a city hidden away in Aerenal which is called the Undying Court. They are the leaders of the entire elven race, for the most part. There is no actual god or diety, it is simply an ideal.

Many of Eberrons religions circle around ideals and ideas and not tangible things or gods.

The Soverign Host and Dark Six are simply personifications of these ideas created by the people of Eberron. There is no proof that dieties exist, even outsiders do not know.

You dont really need to shove Eberron into the Great Wheel.

If you check www.coveworld.net/eberron (click news) and see the summary of the Eberron Gencon Seminar, you will find that Eberron is linked via the Shadow Plane to other cosmologies.

This allows you to move between Greyhawk or FR or any other setting, while still keeping Eberron intact, and makes for less work for you.

Pants · Sep 1, 2004

dead said:
Would it be too much of a stretch to insert the *generic* non-human pantheon of D&D; ie. Correllon Larethian (elves), Moradin (dwarves), Garl Glittergold (gnomes), Yondalla (halflings), etc.? I mean, this isn't essential, though, because Dragonlance doesn't have these gods.

Yes.
IMO, don't play Eberron if you want to insert the 'generic' gods into it. They really don't fit and their existence ruins what I think is one of the best aspects of Eberron; the gods are mysterious and their actual existence is questionable.

You COULD do it, but it seems to me that if would be far more work and would result in a fairly mangled setting. It would be kind of like sticking Boccob in Midnight.

My best advice would be to take the aspects of Eberron that you do like and insert them into other campaigns. It works much better as a 'pocket prime' IMO.

dead · Sep 1, 2004

MavrickWeirdo said:
It takes a very strong shoehorn to fit Ebberon into the Great Wheel.

I have that shoehorn! I used it to squash Krynn into the Great Wheel!

MoogleEmpMog · Sep 1, 2004

Eberron is actually great to stick into a Spelljammer game, because it has such a great/flavorful Eberrspace to adventure in! I can certainly imagine some fun times with 'jammer ships flitting about the Ring of Siberys... and I can also imagine a swarm of scro and elves collecting the incredibly powerful shards therein to fuel a second Unhuman War! Of course, the powerful industrial nations of Khorvaire might have something to say about that, and they may possess the capacity to mass-produce 'jammers of their own once given the design...

The gods/planes problem shouldn't be too much of one: decide whether you want the Eberron gods (I'm talking about the Six and the Host here) to be real or not, stick them on the appropriate planes of your choice, and use the outer planes as in normal D&D. The near/remote effects could be due to the moons alone, rather than actual planar conjunctions, especially if you're playing a Spelljammer-centric campaign (and whyever wouldn't you be?

)

The warforged, incidentally, make perfect spelljammer crew. Intelligent, flexible, non-breathers with a natural affinity for magic and artifice? Sounds like the Lord of Blades, Eberron's iconic warforged villain, may want to take his crusade for Construct Supremacy to the stars.

dead · Sep 1, 2004

BrooklynKnight said:
You dont really need to shove Eberron into the Great Wheel.

Unfortunately I have to. Why? For two reasons:

1) My campaign is based on the premise that there is only ONE Material plane and ONE cosmology (the Great Wheel).

2) The Plane of Shadow is coterminous and coexistant with the Prime Material Plane but not with the Prime Material Planes of alternate cosmologies (because there are no alternate Primes/cosmologies).

So . . . if I'm gonna have my PC's "world-hop" then, for consistancy, I need to shoehorn Eberron into the Great Wheel. I've already done it (well . . . TSR did it) for Dragonlance and now it's Eberron's turn.

The only other alternative is to start an ENTIRELY NEW campaign based in Eberron that is not attached to my current campaign. I don't want to do this, however, as I only wanna have my PCs "drop in" to Eberron temporarily for some sight-seeing (just like they do for Krynn and the Realms on occasion).

Anyway, it seems like Eberron could fit into the Great Wheel from the information at hand. I mean, look at how squished Dragonlance looks in the Great Wheel! It can't be any worse than that, can it?

dead · Sep 1, 2004

MoogleEmpMog said:
Eberron is actually great to stick into a Spelljammer game, because it has such a great/flavorful Eberrspace to adventure in! I can certainly imagine some fun times with 'jammer ships flitting about the Ring of Siberys... and I can also imagine a swarm of scro and elves collecting the incredibly powerful shards therein to fuel a second Unhuman War! Of course, the powerful industrial nations of Khorvaire might have something to say about that, and they may possess the capacity to mass-produce 'jammers of their own once given the design...

Sound fun to me.

That leads me to another question. Is Eberron "missing" any typical D&D monsters like Dragonlance is missing orcs?

The reason I ask this is because my players are constantly asking: "Why doesn't Krynn have any orcs when it would be so easy for orcs to migrate there via the Phlogiston or a planar portal?"

In fact, I'm currently considering whether or not adding orcs to Krynn will ruin its "feel" (a feel which has already been tainted by being attached to the Great Wheel, but I don't want to push it too far).