Help Coming up with first 8 levels of my Rogue/Ranger(revised)

I'm trying to find a smooth level progression(for the first 8 levels at least) for a Rogue/Ranger(using the new revised ranger). I was hoping I could get some help with this.


Check List:

1. 3 levels Rogue
2. 5 levels Ranger
3. Rogue Archetype is either Assassin or Theif
4. Ranger Archetype is either Hunter or Deepstalker
5. My character race is a Kobold
6. 1st level preferred Rogue for extra skill and expertise in stealth early on.
7. Range damage focused, but never hurts to have melee backup.

Part Make-Up:

1. Ranger/Rogue Kobold (IE my character)
2. Goblin Warlock
3. Bugbear Barbarian

My Character Stats:
Str: 8
Dex: 16
Con: 10
Int: 16
Wis: 14
Cha: 10

My Character is an engineer(modified sage) to give him proficiency in tinkerer's tools and smith's tools, thus the also high intelligence.

For level progression I would suggest sticking with Rogue from 1-3 so you get access to your "max" Sneak Attack damage ASAP, then ride out Ranger for the next 5 levels. I'd only insert a few levels of Ranger before that if an RP aspect crops up that would make more sense for your Kobold to become more "Rangery".

I know you mentioned being an Engineer and having a high Int for it, but is that an RP choice? The stat is not doing much for you otherwise I don't think.

WarpedAcorn said:

For level progression I would suggest sticking with Rogue from 1-3 so you get access to your "max" Sneak Attack damage ASAP, then ride out Ranger for the next 5 levels. I'd only insert a few levels of Ranger before that if an RP aspect crops up that would make more sense for your Kobold to become more "Rangery".

I know you mentioned being an Engineer and having a high Int for it, but is that an RP choice? The stat is not doing much for you otherwise I don't think.

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Then int is for RP purposes(mostly), my guy basically the strategist of the group....and it makes since that an engineer.

Also, I'm the only one with decent int so I'm the Intelligence check guy more or less.

Your most important levels are probaby:

* Rogue 2 (Cunning Action)
* Ranger 5 (Extra Attack)

You get some nice things along the way, but those two will have the biggest impact on your play.

Personally, I think you should strive to get to Ranger 5 as quickly as possible. Since you are set on starting as a rogue, I'd recommend the following progression:

1. Rogue 1: Sneak Attack 1d6, Extra Skill, Expertise (Stealth, Perception)
2. Ranger 1: Favored Enemy, Natural Explorer
3. Ranger 2: Archery Fighting Style, Hunter's Quarry
4. Ranger [Hunter] 3: Colossus Slayer
5. Ranger [Hunter] 4: Sharpshooter
6. Ranger [Hunter] 5: Extra Attack
7. Rogue 2: Cunning Action
8. Rogue [Assassin] 3: Assassinate
9. Rogue [Assassin] 4: Alert or +2 Dex (depends on how badly you want to trigger Assassinate; Natural Explorer already gives you advantage on init)

nexalis said:

Personally, I think you should strive to get to Ranger 5 as quickly as possible. Since you are set on starting as a rogue, I'd recommend the following progression:

1. Rogue 1: Sneak Attack 1d6, Extra Skill, Expertise (Stealth, Perception)
2. Ranger 1: Favored Enemy, Natural Explorer
3. Ranger 2: Archery Fighting Style, Hunter's Quarry
4. Ranger [Hunter] 3: Colossus Slayer
5. Ranger [Hunter] 4: Sharpshooter
6. Ranger [Hunter] 5: Extra Attack
7. Rogue 2: Cunning Action
8. Rogue [Assassin] 3: Assassinate
9. Rogue [Assassin] 4: Alert or +2 Dex (depends on how badly you want to trigger Assassinate; Natural Explorer already gives you advantage on init)

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What do you think of crossbow expert? Instead of Sharpshooter at level 5(Ranger level 4).

Edit: And thanks for the input.

HermanTheWize said:

What do you think of crossbow expert? Instead of Sharpshooter at level 5(Ranger level 4).

Edit: And thanks for the input.

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Crossbow Expert is also very good, especially when combined with Hunter's Quarry, Colossus Slayer, and any static bonuses you might have. I would strive to pick up both feats. Which you choose first is a matter of personal preference.

In practice, I find that the +20 per round additional damage potential from Sharpshooter, as well as the ability to avoid cover penalties are more significant than the additional attack per round from Crossbow Expert, especially since the latter competes with your use of Cunning Action. I would therefore pick up Sharpshooter first. Here, I presume that you plan to skulk around in the back ranks frequently shooting through your allies' squares, which means that your opponents will often have 50% cover from you if you are focusing fire.

A reliable source of Bless or Faerie Fire would be a great boon to you, but your group seems to be lacking support. A cleric or bard would be a good addition to your team.

I find crossbow expert to be great if you really want to use a crossbow with extra attack or in melee, but aside from some specific builds, it doesn't stand on its own, especially compared to Sharpshooter.

I find most classes have a lot of interesting things to do with their bonus actions, so relying on your CE bonus action attack has some opportunity cost—especially when you consider using a bow without CE is a straight up always-on +1 to damage.

Of course the two feats have a lot of synergy together, so CE is a great feat to pick up later on in your build if you have Sharpshooter already.

[MENTION=6855206]nexalis[/MENTION] [MENTION=85040]RCanine[/MENTION] You both have great points, I will most likely be in the back most of the time, you may be right about going sharpshooter first.

Thanks for the input guys.

I'm playing a UA Ranger (Hunter) with Crossbow expert right now and it's working really well. I went Hordebreaker and often get four attack rounds at 6th. With my favored enemies bonus of +4 coming up fairly regularly, I'm outdamaging sharpshooter easily. BUT, at the cost of being within 30' short range, and when favored enemy isn't giving my +4 damage or if they are spread and I can only get 3 attacks then it's close or sharpshooter gets an edge. Which is better depends on the context.

Base damage is d6 (hand xbow) + 4 (dex) + 1 (magic crossbow), but I can add +4 (favored enemy) and +d6 (hunter's mark). So best case is 2d6+9=16 average, 4 attacks, 75% to hit = 48 DPR. Worst case is no favored enemy and no adjacent opponents: 2d6+5=12 average, 3 attacks, 75% to hit = 27 DPR.

For comparison, SS would be d8 (longbow) + 4 (dex) +1 (magic) + d6 (hunter's mark) +10 (SS)=23 average. 2 attacks with 50% chance to hit is 23 DPR. Add in 75% chance for at least one hit for Colossus Slayer adding d8 damage adds on 3.375 for a total of DPR of 26.375. (Assuming it always adds, ignoring max HP)

The SS combo does have additional advantages - it can cast/change Hunter's Mark without giving up an attack, and it does more per attack so something like Haste gives more. Plus much greater range, and better magic items like the Oathbow. The crit also averages 1 more damage (not modeled above). The Crossbow Expert + Horde Breaker just has the potential to pump out a lot more damage when it hits on all cylinders (favored enemy and adjacent foes).

This is assuming pure Ranger and at 6th (for the +4 favored enemy damage vs. two large categories). For your setup with sneak attack which just requires a single hit to apply that changes the numbers again.