4.33 Years in: What Now for 5E? (and have we reached "Peak Edition?")

Oofta

Legend
To quote Yogi Berra: It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future.

In other words, who knows? I think we could use a good video game or two and hopefully the movie doesn't suck. That may keep things increasing for a while. Growth inevitably slows at some point, predicting future potential is kind of like looking at a 4 year old and predicting they'll be 20 ft tall by the time they're 20.

I'd expect a plateau and even see a modest decline in market in a couple of years, but in all likelihood it will still be quite large by RPG table top gaming standards. Less so than, say the standards of how much profit people make off of [spin the wheel of random industries not related to table top gaming] stock market flash trading.
 

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Mercurius

Legend
I believe that 5e is nearing the point (perhaps a year and a half away) when it will reach peak popularity.

Furthermore, I think that we will see a fairly dramatic drop in sales after that point. Thereafter, the edition will (I believe) sell at a steadily (but slowly) declining rate until the release of a new edition.

Currently, 5e is doing very well. I suspect that any future losses of profit will be caused by dropping numbers of new players.

My guesses could be completely inaccurate, but I am glad to be able to share them.

Peak and decline is inevitable; the question is, can WotC stimulate later peaks? I would echo what @Prakriti said and say that the movie will impact this trajectory - and possibly stimulate a later peak. WotC has to be thinking about other ways to do the same, because at some point sales will start going down. On the other hand, maybe they find a way to turn D&D into the RPG version of Monopoly or, as someone said, Catan. No peak and valley, just an undulating plateau.

1982 was the peak of 1e. It was doing very well, but not as well as they had forecasted. And 1983 was the beginning of the decline.

I don’t know about 5e. The current books seem to be doing well on Amazon and sales seem sustained. But growth cannot last forever, so it has to plateau eventually. But even then, when new player acquisition slows down, we’ll have a few years of declining but still good sales. 5e probably has quite a few good years left.

But, I think we’re closer to the middle. I do think we’ve almost hit saturation where we have “enough”

I question this idea of saturation and "enough" and have a theory about that. Maybe I should post it in the other thread, but I'll reply here.

If you look at the 18 books that have been released, you have the three core rulebooks, one book that is specific to the Forgotten Realms, one rules supplement, two monster/lore books, one setting book, and eight story arcs in ten books (including Tales as a "story arc" and the two Waterdeep books as one). It is really not that much for five years of releases, especially when you consider that ten of the eighteen books are adventures - so really only five non-adventure books in four years, and none are truly "core."

In fact, WotC has done a good job getting away from that silly 4E era idea that "everything is core," which was an attempt to optimize sales that led to bloat and over-saturation. In 5E, only the PHB, DMG, and MM are core. Everything else is optional.

But from reading the other thread, I think the feeling of saturation that some are experiencing comes from "falling behind" on the story arcs. By having such a small number of releases, WotC has perpetuated the idea that even if everything isn't core, every release is special and exciting. "What is the new story that WotC is telling? I want to be part of that." 5E is about story, after all.

It feels saturated when you can't keep up with the latest story and are one or two or more behind. I think WotC's release schedule is based on the idea that if you play one story arc after the other, you'll finish one in six months of playing once per week, and be ready for the next. Not every group can keep up with that pace.

Now of course no one is saying that you have to play every story arc, and certainly not everyone wants to play every story arc. They are optional. If you're starting now, you have seven different story arcs to choose from, plus a compilation of adventures (Tales). I don't see that as much as saturation as it is a nice wealth of options. And how can providing more adventure options be "saturation?" How can we ever have enough stories?

In previous editions, saturation came from rules bloat - so many rules options and supplements to choose from and keep up with. It was generally understood that adventures and setting stuff were all optional. No one felt overwhelmed by all of the Dark Sun or Planescape stuff. If you were a fan of the setting, you loved all of the material you could buy. If you weren't, you just ignored it and looked at other stuff. But what was overwhelming were all the Complete books, all the endless little books that came out; or in the 3.5 and 4E eras, all of the hardcover rule books.

So again, I think the feeling of saturation and having "enough" is almost because there are so few actual non-adventure books being published, and that WotC has made story--and the story arcs--as central to the game line, so that when a new story comes out, the feeling is that "everyone is playing it." When that doesn't happen, we either feel that we're being left behind, or that the new story arc isn't popular because people aren't talking about it, so therefore it must not be good, and people have had enough. But again, there is no "enough" with story, and we haven't had so many non-story books that we could possibly have reached a saturation point.

Maybe this is a kind of saturation, or 5E's version of it. But I don't see it as a bad thing - just that we've reached the point that we now have a nice back-log of adventures to choose from. I mean, it is a good thing that if you don't like the next story arc, you can always go back and pick up one that you didn't get to previously.

If anything, I think we need more stories, but more short ones - modules, compilations, etc. Of course we get those from DM's Guild, but if we were to think in terms of WotC only, I'd like to see them branch out from the "novel as default" approach to story-telling. We need more short-stories, more novellas, more vignettes even.
 
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ad_hoc

(they/them)
If anything, I think we need more stories, but more short ones - modules, compilations, etc. Of course we get those from DM's Guild, but if we were to think in terms of WotC only, I'd like to see them branch out from the "novel as default" approach to story-telling. We need more short-stories, more novellas, more vignettes even.

Yeah, the 2 things I want are:

1. A random encounters book.
2. A short adventures book. Have a bunch of adventures, maybe a couple as long as YP but a bunch that are shorter; designed to be played in 1 long rest. And focused on levels 5-10.

I would buy both of those in a heartbeat but have little interest in new adventure paths.
 

If you look at the 18 books that have been released, you have the three core rulebooks, one book that is specific to the Forgotten Realms, one rules supplement, two monster/lore books, one setting book, and eight story arcs in ten books (including Tales as a "story arc" and the two Waterdeep books as one). It is really not that much for five years of releases, especially when you consider that ten of the eighteen books are adventures - so really only five non-adventure books in four years, and none are truly "core."

In fact, WotC has done a good job getting away from that silly 4E era idea that "everything is core," which was an attempt to optimize sales that led to bloat and over-saturation. In 5E, only the PHB, DMG, and MM are core. Everything else is optional.

But from reading the other thread, I think the feeling of saturation that some are experiencing comes from "falling behind" on the story arcs. By having such a small number of releases, WotC has perpetuated the idea that even if everything isn't core, every release is special and exciting. "What is the new story that WotC is telling? I want to be part of that." 5E is about story, after all.

It feels saturated when you can't keep up with the latest story and are one or two or more behind. I think WotC's release schedule is based on the idea that if you play one story arc after the other, you'll finish one in six months of playing once per week, and be ready for the next. Not every group can keep up with that pace.
Keeping up is part of it. A campaign book can last between six months and a year, easily. If you take your time and don’t rush, by the time you finish an adventure you might have two I played adventures to choose from. By the time you finish the next, there’s three. Then four.
And that’s assuming you don’t take a break for homebrew.
And if you didn’t get into game early, there’s even more. Someone starting now has seven full campaigns. So why buy another when you already have two or three years of content?

Story saturation is easier to overcome than rules saturation. As there’s less overlap. It doesn’t matter if people are tired of official adventures, if the next one is amazeballs then people will still buy it. And it’s less intimidating to newcomers.
But when people look at three or four existing books they haven’t used, they’re just less likely to buy more.

I am pretty satisfied in terms of monsters and races. I could use three or four more races and I think I’d be good. While there are some specific subclasses I lack, those are easy enough to make myself.
 

Mercurius

Legend
Keeping up is part of it. A campaign book can last between six months and a year, easily. If you take your time and don’t rush, by the time you finish an adventure you might have two I played adventures to choose from. By the time you finish the next, there’s three. Then four.
And that’s assuming you don’t take a break for homebrew.
And if you didn’t get into game early, there’s even more. Someone starting now has seven full campaigns. So why buy another when you already have two or three years of content?

Story saturation is easier to overcome than rules saturation. As there’s less overlap. It doesn’t matter if people are tired of official adventures, if the next one is amazeballs then people will still buy it. And it’s less intimidating to newcomers.
But when people look at three or four existing books they haven’t used, they’re just less likely to buy more.

I am pretty satisfied in terms of monsters and races. I could use three or four more races and I think I’d be good. While there are some specific subclasses I lack, those are easy enough to make myself.

Part of the issue may be that the story books are hardcover, and hardcover has a connotation of "must buy" that goes back to 1E, when you'd only get one hardcover a year (two later on) and it felt like a Big Event (Or so I remember my 10-12-ish year old self feeling). I think WotC deliberately (and successfully) tried to recapture this feeling, if simply by virtue of relative rarity of hardcover releases.

I bought every 5E that came out, but then started tapering off, delaying purchases as I realized that I really didn't need adventure hardcovers that I wasn't going to run or mine for ideas, except as items on my shelf. Of course that is true for many of us: we (sometimes, often) buy books to have books, not to use or read them. The books I haven't bought are Xanathar's (too little info that I actually use), ToA (am playing it, so don't want to "cheat"), and Dragon Heist (meh). Strahd was the first that I didn't purchase on publication and wasn't planning on getting it, until everyone started raving about it and eventually I caved.

If they were coming out now, I probably wouldn't buy several previous releases that I did buy (e.g. PotA, maybe one or two others) simply because they were the New & Shiny at the time.

So maybe part of what you're talking about, which might account for possible sales dip in newer releases (which we don't know) and less excitement (seemingly), isn't as much saturation as people have adjusted to being more selective in their purchases, rather than gobbling up whatever comes out.

Anyhow, I think a future release schedule of 4 books a year that I suggested--two story books, one rules supplement, one setting--is the Goldilocks zone, that will keep us with enough, but not too much.
 

I refuse to recognize 5e's peak until we've got a psionics book! After that, it can go wherever they want it to, because I'll have enough to keep playing for at least one more decade if 6e/5.5e is not my cup of tea. :)
 

ccs

41st lv DM
I find the release of the new Gift Set to be highly symbolic. Each previous edition has had some sort of new set of core rulebooks - be it just new cover art (1st ed), an entirely new layout (2nd), or a rules revision (3.5e, Essentials). And in every case it has seemed that the edition has then been marching towards its end - there have still been some significant books to come, but the new edition has been just over the horizon.

In which case, the new edition might be 2022, or thereabouts.

That's when behind the scenes tinkering will begin in earnest.
2023 6e will be announced. Probably with some kind of play test as that's good PR.
2024 6e will launch with great hoopla to celebrate D&Ds 50th anniversary.

Changes will be akin to 1e --> 2e. Not enough to invalidate peoples 5e stuff, but enough to encourage picking up the new edition.
 

robus

Lowcountry Low Roller
Supporter
Even if it is only a moderate success of mediocre quality, the effect will likely be positive for the game: a giant neon reminder "hey, D&D, that's a thing still?" won't hurt unless it is teeeeeerrrible.

It’s going to be terrible! it’s really hard to make a decent movie in this genre.
 

Anyhow, I think a future release schedule of 4 books a year that I suggested--two story books, one rules supplement, one setting--is the Goldilocks zone, that will keep us with enough, but not too much.
I sincerely doubt a setting book each year will do well. Settings appeal to such a smaller fraction of the audience, and are useful for multiple campaigns. Each one is good for two or three years.
As a cheap PDF with low production costs and recycled art, maybe. But likely not as hardcover books.
 


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