A GMing telling the players about the gameworld is not like real life

Bedrockgames · Mar 6, 2019

pemerton said:
I have friends, and colleagues, and students, and family members, and on these boards I have fellow posters - but I don't think I have any followers.
.

You might not realize it, but you do have followers. It is obvious to anyone who engages you in a thread. I am not saying that as a bad thing. you have followers because you make very strong arguments that are difficult to refute and you communicate well. On the internet that leads to posters being your followers. You see this all the time on forums.

Aldarc · Mar 6, 2019

Bedrockgames said:
You might not realize it, but you do have followers. It is obvious to anyone who engages you in a thread. I am not saying that as a bad thing. you have followers because you make very strong arguments that are difficult to refute and you communicate well. On the internet that leads to posters being your followers. You see this all the time on forums.

Paranoid much? Cut it out. This insinuation is rude.

Bedrockgames · Mar 6, 2019

pemerton said:
I don't think anyone is in any doubt that your preferences exist. The whole history of RPGing from c1984 to today is largely a testament to them. Any random thread about GMing techniques on this board will almost certainly present your prefences as if they are synonymous with playing D&D or even with RPGing as such. (See eg the current New DM thread in this General RPG sub-forum.) So I'm not sure what you think the struggle consists in.

You have a tendency to undermine the language people use to describe their playstyle. It has been a while since we had one of these exchanges but I definitely remember this coming up in the discussion about sandbox play and player agency. Even in this discussion it feels like our assertions about our playstyle preference are being completely called into question (like for example you seem to be questioning the feasibility of posters who express a desire for realism to achieve any level of realism). To me that feels like calling the whole playstyle into question.

Bedrockgames · Mar 6, 2019

Aldarc said:
Paranoid much? Cut it out. This insinuation is rude.

I am not trying to be rude. But there are thought leaders on internet forum. Pemerton is clearly a thought leader. Heck, Pemertonian Scene framing is a thing because he has people who like his ideas and follow them. I am not suggesting he is a cult leader or anything. but he is a poster who people listen to.

pemerton · Mar 6, 2019

Bedrockgames said:
One of those statements is past tense.

<snip>

But sure, I didn't particularly like the edition and that is going to color my discussion with you if it is a part of your playstyle.

In this thread you commended The Alexandrian's blog about "dissocated mechanics". Which characterises 4e as not really an RPG, but a skirmish game punctuated by moments of free-form roleplaying. In case anyone doesn't believe me, here's the quote:

There is a meaningful difference between an RPG and a wargame. And that meaningful difference doesn’t actually go away just because you happen to give names to the miniatures you’re playing the wargame with and improv dramatically interesting stories that take place between your tactical skirmishes.

This is why I don't really take seriously that you object to pejorative descriptions of playstyles you personally don't care for. Your objection to pejorative descriptions only seems to be activitated by someone (especially me) explaing a dislike for GM-decides as a resolution system.

pemerton · Mar 6, 2019

Bedrockgames said:
Pemertonian Scene framing is a thing because he has people who like his ideas and follow them. I am not suggesting he is a cult leader or anything. but he is a poster who people listen to.

"Permertonian Scene Framing" is a phrase coined by [MENTION=463]S'mon[/MENTION] who is a poster on these boards with a post-count similar to mine; who (like me) is an academic in an English-language law school; whose politics are different from mine (I think I can say that much without breaking board rules); whose opinions I generally respect and whose commentary on RPGing is almost always worth listening to; who thinks I have interesting things to say about 4e, sometimes accepts I have interesting things to say about OSR/"free kriegsspiel", but who (I believe) thinks I'm wrong in this thread.

To characterise S'mon as my "follower" is ridiculous! Without being mawkish and without wanting to exaggerate the intimacy that is possible on a message board (we've never met in person), I would characterise S'mon as a friend.

Numidius · Mar 6, 2019

Bedrockgames said:
I think most of us can't help shaking the feeling we are being laughed at by the other side.

Given the past play experiences shown in this thread, "I" should be the one being laughed at. I demand my niche protection.

pemerton · Mar 6, 2019

Bedrockgames said:
you seem to be questioning the feasibility of posters who express a desire for realism to achieve any level of realism

Are you confusing me with [MENTION=16814]Ovinomancer[/MENTION]?

Not only do I not question the feasibility of achieving some degree of realism, I assert that most of my RPGing has more of it than most of [MENTION=23751]Maxperson[/MENTION]'s!

I think the most interesting domains of realism in a RPG are in the domains of human relations and social and cultural phenomena - because these are also the most interesting domains of realism in fiction generally.

There's a form of realism that I don't think is well-suited to RPGing - namely, the fact that most people's lives are (without editing) narratively uninteresting - but I don't think many people, in their RPGing, actually try to reproduce an unedited ilfe. My reason for asserting this is the same as my reason for asserting that very few people have ever actually watched all 5+ hours of Andy Warhol's Sleep.

pemerton · Mar 6, 2019

Numidius said:
Given the past play experiences shown in this thread, "I" should be the one being laughed at. I demand my niche protection.

Your bathing story makes me cry, not laugh - I feel your pain.

(EDIT: perhaps I need a bath to soothe me of the pain of your play report.)

Ovinomancer · Mar 6, 2019

pemerton said:
Are you confusing me with [MENTION=16814]Ovinomancer[/MENTION]?

Unlikely, I blocked him in the previous thread for doing what he apoears to be doing now.

EDIT: [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] I also think it would be good if you define what you mean by realism.

A GMing telling the players about the gameworld is not like real life

Bedrockgames

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Aldarc

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Bedrockgames

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Bedrockgames

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pemerton

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Numidius

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pemerton

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Ovinomancer

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