D&D 5E Removing the Concentration Damage Save: Houseruling the Affected Feats and Abilities

jodyjohnson

Adventurer
The other editions are even more irrelevant. No other edition was play tested as much as this edition. This edition learns the errors of the previous ones.

After going back to the sources I'll note a few other 5e Rules that appeared between the 'greatest open playtest in history' and their publication in 5e. These were unvetted by the masses outside of the same playtesting cabal that brought you 4e.
1. The Bonus action
2. The Beastmaster Ranger
3. The -5/+10 mechanic for Sharpshooter and Great Weapon Master
4. Crossbow Expert
5. Wildshape/Polymorph as ablative Hit Points
6. Barbarian Damage Resistance while raging
7. Most of the subclasses
8. The Sorceror
9. The Warlock

That's just a sample. Most of my houses rules came out of the playtest packets we played publicly for over a year before the 'Final' version released.
 

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Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
I thought I may have misremembered so I went through all the playtest packets as part of the non-private playtest.

Concentration was not in the first packet (8/17/2012) - there was a fiddly 'Disruption' mechanic. (See 3.x/PF)
Concentration in a near current form showed up in the 10/29/2012 packets with a Con save with a DC equal to half damage and remained static for 3 more packets.
The Save on Damage was dropped 3/20/2013 (after 5 months of testing). Only special circumstances disrupted Concentration.
This remained in place throughout the rest of the wide playtest. This was an additional 14 months and 5 more playtest packets.

1 Packet before Concentration
4 with Save on Damage (1/2 damage for the DC)
6 with No save on damage.
Then it appeared again with Lost Mine of Phandelver and the Live 5e game with the Save on Damage re-added after over a year without it, Loss on Unconsciousness or Stun broadened to include any Incapacitation, and a surprise DC10 minimum.

But Mearls has said that there was a lot of A/B testing and swapping out mechanics that worked to try and find better ones. It not being in part of the playtest without information about why it was out isn't really indicative of anything.
 

Galendril

Explorer
After going back to the sources I'll note a few other 5e Rules that appeared between the 'greatest open playtest in history' and their publication in 5e. These were unvetted by the masses outside of the same playtesting cabal that brought you 4e.
1. The Bonus action
2. The Beastmaster Ranger
3. The -5/+10 mechanic for Sharpshooter and Great Weapon Master
4. Crossbow Expert
5. Wildshape/Polymorph as ablative Hit Points
6. Barbarian Damage Resistance while raging
7. Most of the subclasses
8. The Sorceror
9. The Warlock

That's just a sample. Most of my houses rules came out of the playtest packets we played publicly for over a year before the 'Final' version released.

Not sure what the point of this post is beyond making yourself feel good. You’ve already pointed out concentration rule we’re play tested In various forms.
 

jodyjohnson

Adventurer
Individual tables should be encouraged to change rules that aren't working for them. 'Concentration' is no exception.

Tweaking Concentration is not going to make 'casters too powerful' any more than expanding Banishment to effect any creature, or overpowering Fireball and Lightning Bolt intentionally, or adding in Counterspell and starting the whole Reaction/obfuscation mini-game. There are many options for dealing with enemy spells beyond the lowest common denominator of 'hit them for damage'. Incapacitated (stuns, sleep, hold, petrification, unconscious, dead), lesser restoration, save each round, dispel magic, counterspell, and saving throws in general.

The reality is that Wizards is not going to majorly revise 5e through errata. Talking about changes individuals want to make to personalize 5e for their particular table/group are not a threat to the 5e Rule Set at large or a push to speed us on to 6e.

5e is built to handle house ruling. It is by far my favorite starting point for the rules at my table. And 4e is my second favorite. If DMs want to try out house rules then it is to 6e's far-off future benefit that they do so and get some long term experience of how it plays out.

That's not to say it wouldn't have been beneficial to have another pass or two on the rules in Open playtesting before the Devs and A/B testers gave us the Ranger Beastmaster or took the elegance of the Bonus action and then multiplied it out to the point where players view it exactly like they were trying to avoid (constantly hunting for ways to use your 'Bonus action' like it is a standard part of the Action economy).
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
Individual tables should be encouraged to change rules that aren't working for them. 'Concentration' is no exception.

Tweaking Concentration is not going to make 'casters too powerful' any more than expanding Banishment to effect any creature, or overpowering Fireball and Lightning Bolt intentionally, or adding in Counterspell and starting the whole Reaction/obfuscation mini-game. There are many options for dealing with enemy spells beyond the lowest common denominator of 'hit them for damage'. Incapacitated (stuns, sleep, hold, petrification, unconscious, dead), lesser restoration, save each round, dispel magic, counterspell, and saving throws in general.

The reality is that Wizards is not going to majorly revise 5e through errata. Talking about changes individuals want to make to personalize 5e for their particular table/group are not a threat to the 5e Rule Set at large or a push to speed us on to 6e.

5e is built to handle house ruling. It is by far my favorite starting point for the rules at my table. And 4e is my second favorite. If DMs want to try out house rules then it is to 6e's far-off future benefit that they do so and get some long term experience of how it plays out.

That's not to say it wouldn't have been beneficial to have another pass or two on the rules in Open playtesting before the Devs and A/B testers gave us the Ranger Beastmaster or took the elegance of the Bonus action and then multiplied it out to the point where players view it exactly like they were trying to avoid (constantly hunting for ways to use your 'Bonus action' like it is a standard part of the Action economy).

And Individual posters should generally be encouraged to voice their opinions about possible mechanics changes that are posted on a message board.

I like the damage ends concentration rule because I want to be able to knock an enemies hold person off my barbarian ally with my fighter. It just makes sense that beating the crap out of someone enough is going to affect his ability to maintain ongoing effects.
 


MarkB

Legend
This change is going to make things easier for PC spellcasters, but bear in mind its effects upon NPC spellcasters. Especially in the mid-to-late game, powerful boss-enemy spellcasters maintaining concentration upon save-or-suck spells or powerful self-buffs can become a serious issue, and one which the party would normally counter by spamming damaging attacks to force multiple Concentration checks. Banishment and maze come immediately to mind.
 

Gadget

Adventurer
Interesting proposition. I too have found the save to maintain concentration rule somewhat fiddly at times. I understand that at one time during the closed play test they had it two parts: focus & concentration. A spell could have one or both requirements, depending on the needs. This would make sense, it is thematic to have to save to maintain a spell like Hold Person, but not so much Stoneskin or Hunter's Mark. So maybe the save or suck spells could require a save on damage, but some of the buffs not so much.
 

jodyjohnson

Adventurer
I'm not a fan of the Auto break on 20 damage version. It places more value on the big hit offense (Paladin Smites, GWM, and Sharpshooter) on the player side and makes player concentration spells nearly impossible to maintain as the character levels increase because of the way monster damage scales with CR.

We mostly play RAW for AL lately, but the latest house rule version was only make checks when getting hit by a Crit or when failing a save versus damage with a '1'. Mage Hunter always forced a save.

Every house rule has consequences. Just have to weigh them for how things should be at your table.
 

Rossbert

Explorer
Resilient Sphere comes to mind as a bit of a problematic one if concentration can't be broken, no matter which side is using it. Other spells that remove a portion on people from the fight (walls come to mind) can make an encounter really boring for people if they just have to sit and wait 10 rounds. You could I guess put hit points on the effects themselves to fix it.
 

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