Why do people dislike the Zealot

OzDragon · Feb 27, 2018

I know that this idea is not had by everyone but it seems to me that the Zealot is not liked by the community.

According to http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...-Subclasses-(Non-Magic)-THERE-CAN-BE-ONLY-ONE! Out of 25 subclasses it was the second one removed.

I did notice something though some people don't like that it was named Zealot.

So is the Zealot a bad subclass or a poorly named subclass? If you think it is bad, why is it bad?

Olrox17 · Feb 27, 2018

I like the zealot, but one thing I dislike is that it's a better berserker than the actual berserker subclass.

The Crimson Binome · Feb 27, 2018

I'm not terribly familiar with the subclass, because I don't use first-party supplements, but it strikes me that it's too similar to the berserker to justify different mechanics. You should be able to just take the berserker subclass and call yourself a zealot, and nobody would know the difference.

Which means there's no reason for this subclass to exist, since any character that could be built with it could be built just as easily without it.

Warmaster Horus · Feb 27, 2018

I'm a Bear Totem man, myself, but I've got a player in my game running a Zealot. Solid character type, can bring the pain early. My only baby-beef is that their Fanatical Focus is a better version of the Fighter's Indomitable (available sooner and more often per Long Rest), but that's not that big a deal and makes sense, thematically.

neogod22 · Feb 27, 2018

I like the class and actually just made one. I agree it is pretty strong, probably the strongest barbarian class since it doesn't have to fear death as much as the other subclasses. Especially once you get them to 15th level, they won't drop until combat is over.

MechaTarrasque · Feb 27, 2018

People don't like playing lawful neutral characters? I kid, I kid.....

Blue · Feb 27, 2018

I don't hate the zealot, but I also don't think it's perfect.

Divine Fury is more that half of Sneak Attack for a good chunk of many campaigns, on chassis that already has extra attack, easy advantage, and front line survivability. It's only after 8th that it drops below half of SA.

Warrior of the Gods works best with a certain playstyle that may not be shared with the table, and really works best with a very limited selection of other player's characters that have access to the correct spells.

And those are your two 3rd level abilities that shape your playtime with the class.

The subclass capstone at 14th is not a "get out of jail free" card, which implies it works once. It's a constant "neh neh you can't kill me" while a rage is going on, and with 5e's "heal from zero" it's ridiculously easy to avoid death at the end. Especially with Persistent Rage at the next level.

EDIT: Added everything in italics to correct my math error [MENTION=6785438]Warmaster Horus[/MENTION] caught it for me.

neogod22 · Feb 27, 2018

Blue said:
I don't hate the zealot, but I also don't think it's perfect.

Divine Fury is more that half of Sneak Attack, on chassis that already has extra attack, easy advantage, and front line survivability.

Warrior of the Gods works best with a certain playstyle that may not be shared with the table, and really works best with a very limited selection of other player's characters that have access to the correct spells.

And those are you two 3rd level abilities that shape your playtime with the class.

The subclass capstone at 14th is not a "get out of jail free" card, which implies it works once. It's a constant "neh neh you can't kill me" while a rage is going on, and with 5e's "heal from zero" it's ridiculously easy to avoid death at the end. Especially with Persistent Rage at the next level.

Even if they did die, Revivify costs nothi,g but a 3rd lvl slot.

Warmaster Horus · Feb 27, 2018

Blue said:
...
Divine Fury is more that half of Sneak Attack, on chassis that already has extra attack, easy advantage, and front line survivability.

Not sure how that follows. At 3rd level sneak attack is 2d6 while Divine Fury is 1d6+1. Sneak attack then gets another d6 per two levels while DF gets +1 damage. Not quite the same.

The subclass capstone at 14th is not a "get out of jail free" card, which implies it works once. It's a constant "neh neh you can't kill me" while a rage is going on, and with 5e's "heal from zero" it's ridiculously easy to avoid death at the end. Especially with Persistent Rage at the next level.

Yeah, they pretty much defy death at that point other than 'you die when you get to 0hp' or other instant death effects (1-hit damage=max hp, etc). I would of liked to of seen some sort of save for exhaustion limit or the like on this.

Blue · Feb 27, 2018

neogod22 said:
Even if they did die, Revivify costs nothi,g but a 3rd lvl slot.

That is a description of the feature, yes.

And it requires some other character with revivify. That is only found on the Cleric and Paladin's lists, and Paladins don't get it until later.

So either it requires that someone else play a Cleric so they are available within the 1 minute revivify can work. Or it requires a playstyle where NPCs with the higher level spells to bring people back are available and will do it at need.

I believe that covers both of my critiques about it.