D&D 5E ToA: Dance of the Seven Winds *SPOILERS*

pukunui

Legend
Hi all,

In Tomb of Annihilation, it's possible for the characters to gain a magical flying speed via a ritual known as the Dance of the Seven Winds, performed by the aarakocra of Kir Sabal. The sidebar on page 69 states that recipients "gain a magical flying speed of 30 feet (allowing them to fly 4 miles per hour). This benefit lasts for 3 days ..."

The reason given in the book for the aarakocra to bestow this gift upon the PCs is to help them get to Omu. The "forbidden city" is roughly 240 miles away from the monastery of Kir Sabal. At 4 mph, the PCs would need to fly for a total of 60 hours (or 2.5 days) to reach Omu by air.

What I can't figure out is if the PCs can actually do that or not.

According to the rules for sky travel on pp 119-120 of the DMG, "Flying by spell or magic item works the same as travel on foot, as described in the Player's Handbook." This suggests that the PCs would only be able to fly for 8 hours each day before the Forced March rule kicks in, in which case, the PCs would need to risk dying from exhaustion if they wanted to fly all the way to Omu. If they don't want to take that risk, then they can't even fly halfway there. A flying speed of 4 mph basically translates to 3 hexes per day on the Chult map, if the PCs only travel for 8 hours a day.

As an aside, according to the rules for special travel paces on pp 242-243 of the DMG, a normal flying speed of 30 feet would translate to an hourly rate of 3 mph. A rate of 4 mph would be the fast pace speed.

That section also says that characters "bestride a phantom steed, soaring through the air on a carpet of flying, or riding a sailboat or a steam-powered gnomish contraption [don't] travel at a normal rate, since the magic, engine, or wind doesn't tire the way a creature does and the air doesn't contain the types of obstructions found on land." This seems to contradict the bit I quoted above about flying via magic using the same rules as traveling by foot as per the PHB (although, admittedly, it does still say that a daily rate is "typically 8 hours", which could be interpreted as meaning that the Forced March rule still applies, even if you're traveling on a carpet of flying or using a phantom steed).

What it all boils down to, though, is: If you have a magical flying speed, do you need to worry about exhaustion if you travel for more than 8 hours in a day?


Thanks in advance!


Regards,
Jonathan
 

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dropbear8mybaby

Banned
Banned
While you're not physically exerting yourself to fly, it'd still be draining having to concentrate on zooshing forward for eight solid hours through the rain and wind. I'd probably maybe allow extra time, say 10-12 hours, before making forced march rules kick in, but I definitely wouldn't think they could go a full 24 with zero impact/penalty.
 

It’s an interesting oversight for the Ritual to not specify whether it’s intended to get the party there in one go. You’d think so, the city is just in range for that duration. I mean, I think there are three options. Firstly, the party is intended to get to the city ‘straight away’, narratively speaking, meaning that your campaign moves straight on to Omu with no more exploration elements. Secondly, the spell is intended to give the party a hard choice, choosing between exhaustion levels and speed; although this doesn’t jive that well with the actual roll-per-hour exhaustion rules, a minor tweak to once-per-night would suit. Thirdly, it’s not intended to get the party all the way there, but instead to simply give them a boost of speed and skip the nearby exploration elements.

I guess my suggestion to DMs tackling this issue would be to simply decide which of the three above options suit their campaign at the time of the Ritual – you don’t need to decide beforehand, after all – and then adjust the rules accordingly. If you want to just skip the rest of the jungle exploration, then it’s a magic carpet equivalent that gets summoned and they can take long rests on it. If you want a hard choice, then institute some Exhaustion rolls, but a number that is actually plausible for the party to pass. And if you don’t want to skip the jungle exploration, just specify that they get to move however many hexes forward with no problems, before the flight deactivates.
 

pukunui

Legend
[MENTION=6863518]dropbear8mybaby[/MENTION]: OK, so if we assume they're flying 4 hexes per day (40 miles), that should get them about halfway to Omu.
[MENTION=32659]Charles Rampant[/MENTION]: Good points! To summarize: Is the purpose of the Dance of the Seven Winds to enable the PCs to fly all the way to Omu, or is it just meant to help them get there more quickly (by allowing them to bypass a good chunk of the jungle)?
 
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CapnZapp

Legend
Good points! To summarize: Is the purpose of the Dance of the Seven Winds to enable the PCs to fly all the way to Omu, or is it just meant to help them get there more quickly (by allowing them to bypass a good chunk of the jungle)?
What this boils down to, is:

Does the adventure writers know the rules or not?

The question might seem absurd, but that's really what your question asks.

Assuming your reply is "of course we must assume the designers know the rules", then the answer becomes clear:

The ritual is "just" meant to help the party map the jungle more quickly.

If the ritual was meant to get them to the city, it would have to provide a faster fly speed. Or why not have the monks simply open a one-way portal to Omu?

After all, portals and dimension magic is very Realmsian.

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CapnZapp

Legend
Hi all,

In Tomb of Annihilation, it's possible for the characters to gain a magical flying speed via a ritual known as the Dance of the Seven Winds, performed by the aarakocra of Kir Sabal. The sidebar on page 69 states that recipients "gain a magical flying speed of 30 feet (allowing them to fly 4 miles per hour). This benefit lasts for 3 days ..."

The reason given in the book for the aarakocra to bestow this gift upon the PCs is to help them get to Omu. The "forbidden city" is roughly 240 miles away from the monastery of Kir Sabal. At 4 mph, the PCs would need to fly for a total of 60 hours (or 2.5 days) to reach Omu by air.

What I can't figure out is if the PCs can actually do that or not.

According to the rules for sky travel on pp 119-120 of the DMG, "Flying by spell or magic item works the same as travel on foot, as described in the Player's Handbook." This suggests that the PCs would only be able to fly for 8 hours each day before the Forced March rule kicks in, in which case, the PCs would need to risk dying from exhaustion if they wanted to fly all the way to Omu. If they don't want to take that risk, then they can't even fly halfway there. A flying speed of 4 mph basically translates to 3 hexes per day on the Chult map, if the PCs only travel for 8 hours a day.

As an aside, according to the rules for special travel paces on pp 242-243 of the DMG, a normal flying speed of 30 feet would translate to an hourly rate of 3 mph. A rate of 4 mph would be the fast pace speed.

That section also says that characters "bestride a phantom steed, soaring through the air on a carpet of flying, or riding a sailboat or a steam-powered gnomish contraption [don't] travel at a normal rate, since the magic, engine, or wind doesn't tire the way a creature does and the air doesn't contain the types of obstructions found on land." This seems to contradict the bit I quoted above about flying via magic using the same rules as traveling by foot as per the PHB (although, admittedly, it does still say that a daily rate is "typically 8 hours", which could be interpreted as meaning that the Forced March rule still applies, even if you're traveling on a carpet of flying or using a phantom steed).

What it all boils down to, though, is: If you have a magical flying speed, do you need to worry about exhaustion if you travel for more than 8 hours in a day?


Thanks in advance!


Regards,
Jonathan
To provide a more direct answer: yes, unless the flying magic flies by itself you must still follow the travel rules of the DMG, and flight isn't inherently faster than regular foot travel.

But Chult is nothing like regular.

So the main benefit (aside from avoiding non-flying monsters) is to be able to avoid the very slow travel pace prescribed by the module, and to return to the regular travel pace of the PHB.

Essentially you go back to travelling three hexes a day (roughly) instead of just the one; a huge boon.



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CapnZapp

Legend
It’s an interesting oversight for the Ritual to not specify whether it’s intended to get the party there in one go.
Since it doesn't say, the safe bet is to assume it doesn't, since the rules make that clear.

Also remember that if the characters don't know where the city is, it doesn't help that they're theoretically able to reach it in one go. This is actually discussed by the text - it brings up the subject of spotting the city from the air, thus it must assume the characters are looking for it, thus they don't know it's exact hex.

(As an aside, it seems many people jump to conclusions regarding this ritual, and make calculation errors in their eagerness to hsbe it do what it never promises. A well-known blogger vastly overestimated the travel pace, probably for this exact reason...)

To repeat: there's nothing wrong with wanting the ritual to get them to Omu right away. My best recommendation then is to skip the fly speed and instead have the monks open a one-way portal there.


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Nebulous

Legend
Or, alternatively, we could ignore the entire Dance of the 7 Winds and replace it with something else, like a temporal gate that just opens up at Omu, or they fly on the back of a giant pteradactyl. Or what if the PCs wanna fly to Omu at 3rd level, which is pretty much a death sentence, does the DM let them do it anyway?

I'm seeding Kir Satar in the next session, and it's possible the PCs could be 3rd level if they go there. At the moment though they have no idea what or where Omu is, or any reason to go there. The only real place they have a reason to approach is Mezro.

AxBS6on.jpg
 



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