The Most Important Design Aspect of Hobby RPGs Is The Pure Humanoid Avatar

Role-playing has existed for a century, if not longer. Some role-playing exercises (for education or business) are games with active human opposition, others are puzzles. You play a "role" even in Monopoly, and in many other board games, especially wargames ("you are the commander" said Avalon Hill long before "RPGs" existed). Yet most people would agree that hobby RPGs really got going with Dungeons & Dragons.

Role-playing has existed for a century, if not longer. Some role-playing exercises (for education or business) are games with active human opposition, others are puzzles. You play a "role" even in Monopoly, and in many other board games, especially wargames ("you are the commander" said Avalon Hill long before "RPGs" existed). Yet most people would agree that hobby RPGs really got going with Dungeons & Dragons.


So what makes a hobby RPG different from all the "other" role-playing? Human or human-like avatars are the difference. There are three forms of avatar; in hobby RPGs it's the "pure" or "real" form. This is an entity that everything emanates from, the source of all your actions in the game, and if you lose that entity, if "you" die, you lose the game. The avatar is a focus of everything the player does, starting at the avatar, whether swing a sword, talk to somebody, move around, it is all about the avatar. There may have been games before the early 70s that used pure avatars, but none come to mind, and none made avatars famous. (Video games often use pure avatars, but those derive from D&D. Video games owe a LOT to D&D.)

The second avatar type is that "you" command, but you are not at risk, you may not even be represented by a piece or other asset. Nonetheless the activity emanates from all the assets that you command. In other words, you are a general, or a king, or a CEO. I call this a "virtual avatar," and this is the one used in role-play before the D&D revolution.

The third meaning is that you have a vague function but not a personage. For example, in long-timescale games like Britannia or computer Civilization, and in some social deduction games such as Resistance.

In other words, you have three types: the do-er (as in one doing actions) versus the King/general (the one giving the commands) versus the mysterious, omnipotent controller.

Notice I don't include the usage of "avatar" to describe the little picture we associate with our login/handle in various online communities: "an icon or figure representing a particular person in video games, Internet forums, etc." That's just a picture. I'm talking about function.

Avatars sometimes have a separate developer- or GM-provided "history" and personality (Mario, Sonic, Conan, Aragorn, etc.). Sometimes an avatar is a blank slate so that the player can more easily infuse his/her own personality into the avatar. But whether the avatar has an extensive backstory, or none, doesn't change the design function.

Of course, if we were to try defining "hobby RPG", we'd include some mechanism(s) that allow a player's avatar to increase in capabilities, whether through leveling, skill and feat acquisition, loot collection, or something else. A game without this improvement resembles many novels and movies, where the hero is about the same throughout. James Bond, Conan, Indiana Jones, may improve a little from episode to episode, but not consistently, and most other heroes/protagonists even less so. There's rarely anything like a progression from first to tenth level. Loot collection is the most common improvement in novels and movies. Jon Petersen (author of the historical Playing at the World) would add that in RPGs the player can try to do anything, unlike in other kinds of games where there are distinct limits. More about this another time.

Just as wargames were the hobby of Baby Boomers, video games (and perhaps D&D?) the hobby of Gen X, the game hobby of Millennials is avatar games of all kinds. Which mostly means video games: Skyrim in its first week of release sold $450,000,000 worth, vastly more than the past 10 years of tabletop RPG sales in the USA.

Did hobby RPGs originate the avatar itself? Not exactly, because many racing games, individual tank fighting games (such as World of Tanks), air fighting games, and others have a non-animate avatar, something other than a humanoid. Even when the pilot is modeled separately, the main action in the game comes from the vehicle. It is the focus entirely on the human (or human-like) character that led to an entire genre of gaming.

Reference: "A Perspective on Role-Play" by Stephen L. Lortz, Different Worlds magazine #4, Aug/Sept 1979, pp. 26-28.

​contributed by Lewis Pulsipher
 

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Lewis Pulsipher

Lewis Pulsipher

Dragon, White Dwarf, Fiend Folio

Hussar

Legend
/snip

Yeah.

Hey, I'm not unreasonable. There are just some things that I'm probably going to push back pretty hard on. :D

But, no, I can totally see where [MENTION=30518]lewpuls[/MENTION] is coming from here. It makes a great deal of sense to differentiate role playing games from other games this way since it is a pretty concrete difference. Note, that by role playing games, I'm certainly not excluding board games or other games. There are board games that are pretty much short play RPG's. And certainly video games as well.
 

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Hussar

Legend
True. But I think RPGs are still developing techniques to handle the departure from "skilled" play.

There's something inherently unstable about a game where a good number of players have motivations, in their play, that are at odds with "good" play.

Then again, what constitutes "good" play has changed over time and certainly changes from table to table, so, trying to claim that Gygaxian skilled play is somehow inherent to RPG's is a bit off. It's a function of a particular table, but, that's just a function of that table's preference.
 

pemerton

Legend
[MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION], I take your point, but I stick to mine too.

I don't think that Gygaxian skilled play is inherent to RPGing. But a lot of RPGing makes use of techniques that probably don't make much sense if skilled play is not the goal.

Just to give two examples, that aren't meant to be universal in any sense, but illustrative of what I'm getting at:

* It's very common, on these boards, to read posters who advocate for encounters that are not "winnable" by the PCs, and require eg retreat or avoidance to avoid defeat (which often, in these contexts, equals PC death). What is the point of such encounters in a non-skilled play environment? If the goal of play is, say, to make some point about my character's personality, what is the point of the GM setting up an encounter which - if I try to do that - will result in a swift PC death?

* D&D uses a lot of scaled maps, detailed range measurements, etc. This is just one of many logistical/tactical elements of the game. What is the point of all this in a non-skilled play environment?
 

Jhaelen

First Post
Alignment was meant to give the GM a tool to help put the brakes on the tendency of most players to act as thugs (chaotic neutral trending toward evil, in alignment terms). That'll come up in columns sooner or later.
Now, that's going to be interesting. Alignment debates tend to spin out of control rather quickly ;)
 

prosfilaes

Adventurer
I'd say the real difference is not the humanoid avatar, but the roleplaying of the avatar, the point where the question is not "what is the optimal solution to this problem", but "how would my character approach this problem".
 

I'd say the real difference is not the humanoid avatar, but the roleplaying of the avatar, the point where the question is not "what is the optimal solution to this problem", but "how would my character approach this problem".
To that end, it is is necessary that the character be humanoid, though. You can't roleplay as a hydra (for example), because a hydra's brain is not enough like a human's brain that we would be able to guess what the hydra would do based on any sort of output from our own mental processes. At best, we could guess based on external observations of other large predators.
 

* It's very common, on these boards, to read posters who advocate for encounters that are not "winnable" by the PCs, and require eg retreat or avoidance to avoid defeat (which often, in these contexts, equals PC death). What is the point of such encounters in a non-skilled play environment? If the goal of play is, say, to make some point about my character's personality, what is the point of the GM setting up an encounter which - if I try to do that - will result in a swift PC death?
Why assume that demonstrating personality is the end goal? If the goal of play is simply to find out what happens (based on the character's personality, and all other relevant factors), then the death of a PC is every bit as much of a valid answer as the group running away or somehow overcoming the encounter.
* D&D uses a lot of scaled maps, detailed range measurements, etc. This is just one of many logistical/tactical elements of the game. What is the point of all this in a non-skilled play environment?
Details aid in resolving uncertainty. If we want to find out whether the party makes it to the dungeon, or whether they get lost along the way and succumb to the environment, then a scaled map of the region helps us to figure that out. Without those details, success or failure would be left to arbitration and abstraction. (Not that there's anything wrong with abstraction, in this case - you could also solve the question by simply making a skill check - but the point is to avoid having the DM decide important things arbitrarily.) Likewise in combat, a detailed map of cuts down on arbitration, since everyone can see how many goblins are within the area of a fireball (or whatever).
 

prosfilaes

Adventurer
To that end, it is is necessary that the character be humanoid, though. You can't roleplay as a hydra (for example), because a hydra's brain is not enough like a human's brain that we would be able to guess what the hydra would do based on any sort of output from our own mental processes. At best, we could guess based on external observations of other large predators.

Meh. You think we can realistically roleplay as an elf that has a century behind them, that lives in a world without science but with arcane magic and the active influence of the gods, a world with objective good and evil? Or a werewolf metis who grow up knowing about a fatalistic fight against the Wyrm? Even understanding what your Call of Cthulhu character who grew up a century ago would do can be hard, unless you have a history degree. Someone could play a hydra, and it would be no worse than any other PC.
 

pemerton

Legend
Why assume that demonstrating personality is the end goal?
I don't understand. I posited that, if that is the goal, then a certain fairly commonly-advocated approach to play makes no sense. Which tends to suggest that either those advocates are confused, or that Gyagxian skilled play is more important to them than [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION] suggested in the post to which I replied.

If the goal of play is simply to find out what happens (based on the character's personality, and all other relevant factors), then the death of a PC is every bit as much of a valid answer as the group running away or somehow overcoming the encounter.
I don't think the goal for those advocates is to "find out" that (say) bold PCs die. The goal is fairly clearly to discourage players from playing bold PCs; that is, to encourage players to adopt the sort of cautious approach that is typical of Gygaxian skilled play.

Details aid in resolving uncertainty. If we want to find out whether the party makes it to the dungeon, or whether they get lost along the way and succumb to the environment, then a scaled map of the region helps us to figure that out. Without those details, success or failure would be left to arbitration and abstraction. (Not that there's anything wrong with abstraction, in this case - you could also solve the question by simply making a skill check - but the point is to avoid having the DM decide important things arbitrarily.) Likewise in combat, a detailed map of cuts down on arbitration, since everyone can see how many goblins are within the area of a fireball (or whatever).
There's any number of ways of managing all this stuff without maps.
 

I don't understand. I posited that, if that is the goal, then a certain fairly commonly-advocated approach to play makes no sense. Which tends to suggest that either those advocates are confused, or that Gyagxian skilled play is more important to them than [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION] suggested in the post to which I replied.
Sorry about that. I was apparently missing the context, in the absence of a direct quote. I think I'm agreeing with you, here, that such a goal is inconsistent with such a playstyle.
I don't think the goal for those advocates is to "find out" that (say) bold PCs die. The goal is fairly clearly to discourage players from playing bold PCs; that is, to encourage players to adopt the sort of cautious approach that is typical of Gygaxian skilled play.
Those goals aren't entirely inconsistent. Both goals are consistent with a true motive of encouraging everyone to treat the world like a real place, rather than as a story or board game. The type of cautious approach which is typical of Gygaxian skilled play might also be typical of role-playing a dangerous world where adventurers have to use their judgment because they have no guarantees that they can possibly overcome every challenge - if they live in a world where bold adventurers are likely to die.
 

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