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Do you believe we are alone in the universe?

The universe is far, far, far too big and ancient a place to reasonably rule out life elsewhere. Even if the galaxy is currently lacking intelligent life other than our own (and I'm not convinced it is - our expectations of what intelligent life should be doing with itself is, obviously, prejudiced toward our own ideals), I don't think it was nor will be. I'm also much more optimistic about...

The universe is far, far, far too big and ancient a place to reasonably rule out life elsewhere. Even if the galaxy is currently lacking intelligent life other than our own (and I'm not convinced it is - our expectations of what intelligent life should be doing with itself is, obviously, prejudiced toward our own ideals), I don't think it was nor will be. I'm also much more optimistic about FTL. :)
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
Here's the thing, though. We're observing 16 and plugging in 8+8(Dark matter/energy).

Okay, first off, this is incorrect. Very incorrect. I mean, we are on the edge of "not even wrong" territory.

We are observing anomalous motion of stars in galaxies, and we are observing acceleration of expansion of space as a whole - these two things happen on two different scales. Different like, "your left leg," and, "the continent," different scales. We observe these things separately, and do not have a specific reason to believe they are related.

I do have to ask - are you a licensed electrician or plumber? Pick one that you are not. When you need some of this work done, you hire the best one you can, right? The one with the most experience and understanding? When you do hire one of these trained professionals to do their job, do you look over their shoulders and nitpick the way they do things? Do you hang over then and tell them how to do their job? Do you question the entire approach of home plumbing or electrical work, despite having only small amounts of understanding and experience in the field?

When it comes down to it, can you actually do better than the professional? Are you willing to bet your house burning down or sewage backing up into your sink on that assessment?

Why do you, who cannot seem to differentiate between phenomena on a galactic scale and a universal scale, feel that somehow you have appropriate understanding to critique how these phenomena are investigated and explained by people who have made it their life's work and study?

And you are accusing *others* of hubris?

Please, please, someone call this an appeal to authority. I'm ready for you. :)
 

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Shasarak

Banned
Banned
Please, please, someone call this an appeal to authority. I'm ready for you. :)

Heh, come at me Bro! Which is how scientists should really discuss their work, two scientists enter and one scientist leaves.

I read a story about Darwin which said that he delayed the printing of On the Origin of Species because he wanted to include the counter to any argument against it.
 

Istbor

Dances with Gnolls
Huh?

You just got through telling me that the universe is infinite. That link directly contradicts that.

I'm confused.

I don't see where Morrus said anything about the Universe being infinite. He mentioned what that might mean, if it were, but he was certainly not saying it is infinite.

Maybe you are confused, just as you say.
 


Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
You just got through telling me that the universe is infinite. That link directly contradicts that.

I'm confused.

Let us enlighten...

The *observable* universe is finite - limited by the speed of light, the distances involved, and the age and expansion of the universe. And that's sufficient for this particular question.

We touched upon this elsewhere (earlier in this thread? I can't recall). Whether the universe is actually finite is an open question - that page is oversimplifying, perhaps for sake of its younger intended audience. There's not much indicating it is finite. There are a few things that kind of lean to infinite, but not definitively so.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
I'll oblige.

*Ahem*... argumentum ad verecundiam!!!!!

Sure... so, applying this to the situation comes from a misunderstanding of the fallacy, in a couple of ways. I will demonstrate it this way:

You are feeling chest pain. There are two people near you. One is a renowned cardiac surgeon, who listens to your chest with a stethoscope, and says that you may be in trouble, because he hears an irregularity, and you should go straight to a hospital. The other is some guy named Frank. He's in marketing, but he totally stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night, and he says what you are feeling is the result of eating an aggressive chili dog, and that you should take an antacid and wait half an hour. Not that he asked what you had for lunch.

Who do you listen to?
 

Shasarak

Banned
Banned
Sure... so, applying this to the situation comes from a misunderstanding of the fallacy, in a couple of ways. I will demonstrate it this way:

You are feeling chest pain. There are two people near you. One is a renowned cardiac surgeon, who listens to your chest with a stethoscope, and says that you may be in trouble, because he hears an irregularity, and you should go straight to a hospital. The other is some guy named Frank. He's in marketing, but he totally stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night, and he says what you are feeling is the result of eating an aggressive chili dog, and that you should take an antacid and wait half an hour. Not that he asked what you had for lunch.

Who do you listen to?

Lets say the Cardiac Surgeon was right and you did have a heart attack. Now he advises you to have a stent put in to open the blocked arteries.

Do you still listen to him?
 

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