D&D 5E Mythological Figures: Thor Odinson (5E)

The Gods of EN World have spoken and demanded their brethren, the master of lightning and storm: Thor! A lot of folks have requested Thor but I was asked to move him up the Mythological Figures queue so here he is! There is a plethora of mythology on Odinson here—check out Wikipedia or the Ancient History Encyclopedia for more information. The really important bits that get into the stats below are his belt, gloves, and of course his hammer. I really blew it out with Sun Wukong however (he'll post soon!), so today let’s focus on the build because Thor’s extremely well known these days (although as a blonde fellow and not a redhead which is strange).

The Gods of EN World have spoken and demanded their brethren, the master of lightning and storm: Thor! A lot of folks have requested Thor but I was asked to move him up the Mythological Figures queue so here he is! There is a plethora of mythology on Odinson here—check out Wikipedia or the Ancient History Encyclopedia for more information. The really important bits that get into the stats below are his belt, gloves, and of course his hammer. I really blew it out with Sun Wukong however (he'll post soon!), so today let’s focus on the build because Thor’s extremely well known these days (although as a blonde fellow and not a redhead which is strange).


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Design Notes: Thor here is a straight-up power build (inspired by one of my PCs who I’m trying to retire because paladin + eldritch knight is devastating and multiclassing those archetypes is weird). On that note, “eldritch knight” is a great example of one of those game terms that straddle the OGL and the 5ESRD—it’s a term that’s covered by a previous OGL in the context of a prestige class (not a class archetype), but because it’s under that OGL and I’m not explicitly using the wording of the features of that archetype (explicitly being the key word) it’s fit for print. Anyone interested in seeing some more IP treatment of Thor can check out a decidedly more Marvel-bent build over yonder, although if your goal is to make your character a RAW Thor—what’s below is one way to go about it provided you can get the three key items here.

Also of note I was really torn on figuring out what the classic Thor’s alignment is—on the whole he seems to be good, but often enough he’s doing something nefarious or untoward that I landed on neutral, but another ENWorld user pointed out that Lawful Good is more appropriate. For that little bit of divinity factor and a way to shoulder into his hits to really be a powerhouse he's got some feats which I'm sure you can all figure out the official names for. :cool: The CR calculation for brought him in at only 13 but I think given his damage potential (all those smites!) that it should be something more like 15.

What do you folks think? My Norse-fu is weak and I’m keen to see how this can better embody the god of thunder so tell us what you’ve got!

Thor
Medium humanoid (human), lawful good fighter (eldritch knight) 14/barbarian (lightning harbinger) 4/paladin 2

Armor Class
18 (Constitution)
Hit Points 198 (16d8+4d12+100)
Speed 30 ft.

STR
DEX
CON
INT
WIS
CHA
25 (+7)​
16 (+3)​
20 (+5)​
13 (+1)​
10 (+0)​
12 (+1)​

Saving Throws Str +13, Con +11
Skills Animal Handling +6, Athletics +13, Perception +6, Survival +6
Senses passive Perception 16
Languages Old Norse
Challenge 15 (13,000 XP)

Background Feature: Commoner’s Friend. Thor is always able to rely on the hospitality of commoners to help him hide or rest provided he poses no danger in doing so, going so far as to shield him from being discovered (though not at the cost of their lives).

Action Surge (1/short rest). Once on his turn, Thor can take an additional action on top of his regular action and a possible bonus action.

Bonded Weapon: Mjölnir. Thor’s hammer can only be disarmed from him when he is incapacitated. In addition, as long as he is on the same plane of existence as Mjölnir he can use a bonus action to summon it into his hand.

Danger Sense. Thor has advantage on Dexterity saving throws against effects that he can see, such as traps and spells. To gain this benefit, Thor can’t be blinded, deafened, or incapacitated.

Disrupting Arcana. When Thor hits a creature with a weapon attack, it has disadvantage on the next saving throw it makes to resist a spell before the end of Thor’s next turn.

Divine Sense (2/long rest). As an action, until the end of his next turn Thor knows the location of any celestial, fiend, or undead within 60 feet of him that is not behind total cover. He knows the type (celestial, fiend, or undead) of any being whose presence he senses, but not its identity. Within the same radius, he also detects the presence of any place or object that has been consecrated or desecrated, as with the hallow spell.

Divine Smite. When Thor hits a creature with a melee weapon attack, he can expend one spell slot to deal radiant damage to the target, in addition to the weapon’s damage. The extra damage is 2d8 for a 1st-level spell slot, plus 1d8 for each spell level higher than 1st, to a maximum of 3d8. The damage increases by 1d8 if the target is an undead or a fiend.

Feat: Fortune Points (3/long rest). Thor can spend one fortune point to reroll an attack roll, ability check, or saving throw, or to force an attacker to reroll an attack made against him.

Feat: Power Attack. When Thor makes his first melee weapon attack in a turn, he can choose to take a -5 penalty to his melee weapon attack rolls in exchange for a +10 bonus to melee weapon damage. In addition, Thor can use a bonus action to make one melee weapon attack after he uses a melee weapon to reduce a creature to 0 hit points or scores a critical hit with it. Thor can only use this feature on his turn.

Indomitable (2/long rest). Thor can reroll a saving throw that he fails but must use the new roll.

Járngreipr. Thor’s magic iron gloves allow him to wield the hammer Mjölnir as a maul instead of a warhammer and are otherwise treated as gauntlets of ogre power.

Lay on Hands (10 points/long rest). As an action, Thor can touch a creature and restore a number of hit points to it, up to the maximum amount remaining in this pool. Alternatively, he can expend 5 hit points to cure the target of one disease or neutralize one poison affecting it.

Megingjörð. Thor’s magic belt increases his Strength to 21 (as a belt of hill giant strength; without it his Strength score is 15). While wielding Mjölnir, wearing this belt, and the gloves Járngreipr Thor’s Strength increases to 25.

Rage (2/long rest). On his turn, Thor can enter a rage as a bonus action. He is unable to cast or concentrate on spells while raging (although he can still use Divine Smite). His rage lasts for 1 minute, ending early if he is knocked unconscious or if his turn ends and he hasn’t either attacked a hostile creature since his last turn or taken damage since then. Thor can also end his rage on his turn as a bonus action. While raging, he gains the following benefits.

  • Thor has advantage on Strength checks and Strength saving throws.
  • When Thor makes a melee weapon attack using Strength, he deals 2 extra damage.
  • Thor has resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage.
  • Lightning Aura. Thor can use a bonus action while raging to make lightning jump out from in him a 10-foot radius. Total cover blocks this lightning. He chooses a creature in the area when he activates this feature, forcing it to make a DC 19 Dexterity saving throw or take 3 (1d6) lightning damage (success halves).

Reckless Attack.
When Thor makes his first attack on his turn, he can decide to attack recklessly. Doing so gives him advantage on melee weapon attack rolls using Strength during this turn, but attack rolls against him have advantage until Thor’s next turn.

Second Wind (1/short rest). On his turn, Thor can use a bonus action to regain 1d10+14 hit points.

Spellcasting. Thor is an 8th-level spellcaster that uses Intelligence as his spellcasting ability (spell save DC 15; +7 to hit with spell attacks). Thor has the following spells prepared from the wizard’s spell list. In addition, he can cast paladin spells[D] as a divine spellcaster (using Charisma; spell save DC 15; +7 to hit with spell attacks).
Cantrips: light, prestidigitation, shocking grasp
1st-level (4 slots): bless[D], charm person, detect magic, fog cloud, shield of faith[D], thunderwave
2nd-level (3 slots): misty step, shatter, suggestion
3rd-level (3 slots): lightning bolt, fly, haste
4th-level (2 slots): none​

War-Magician. Thor can use a bonus action to make one weapon attack after casting a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.


ACTIONS

Extra Attack (2). Thor attacks three times.

Mjölnir (Hammer of Thunderbolts with 5 charges). Melee Weapon Attack: +14 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 15 (2d6+8) magical bludgeoning damage. When Thor rolls a 1 or 2 on either of the damage dice, he can reroll the die and must use the new roll. On a critical hit against a giant, the giant must succeed on a DC 17 Constitution saving throw or die.

Thrown Mjölnir (1 charge). Ranged Weapon Attack: +16 to hit, range 20/60 ft., one target. Hit: 15 (2d6+8) magical bludgeoning damage and all creatures within 30 feet must succeed on a DC 17 Constitution saving throw or be stunned until the end of Thor’s next turn.
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Mike Myler

Mike Myler

BookBarbarian

Expert Long Rester
A lot of the magic of the Norse gods seems to stem from their treasures. And it's definitely transferable, at least some of the time. Loki, on various occasions, borrows Freyja's cloak and Ran's net. But on the other hand, when Thrym steals Mjolnir, he doesn't seem to want to use it as a weapon, but only holds it for ransom.

That would further lead me to represent such things as magic items and not Spellcasting, the D&D spellcasting rules that is, since the designers of the game have drawn a pretty strong line between what is "Spells" and what is otherwise some other form of magic class abilities etc.
 

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Yaarel

He Mage
Now we are getting somewhere.

Whom did he punish with lightning? I've read all sorts of stuff with Thor punishing with his hammer, but I can't recall a single time he punished with lightning.

The idea is, the sight of a flash of lightning *is* the hammer of þórr. The impact of the hammer is the thunder clap. His hammer, obviously, returns to his hand because it is possible to see several lightningbolts in rapid succession.

He is an animistic spirit, the conscious presence of a thunderstorm. When people see a storm, they are actually looking at þórr.

When the Norse describe the summer storm, they characterize it as a kind of heroic champion, a fierce warrior.




ְ
 
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Yaarel

He Mage
Modern ‘Germanic neopagans’ have invented the term goði/gyðja for their own modern priests. But this neologism appears absent from historical Norse folkbelief.

This modern neopagan wish to believe that their religion was ‘always’ that way, appears to be the source of some disinformation about Norse folkbelief.



For the same reason there are no priests, there are also no priestesses.



In Old Norse texts, gyðja is the feminine form of goð. (Linguistically, the performance of the o-vowel appears to palatize into a y-vowel while assimilating into -ðj.)

The compound nouns blótgyðja and hofgyðja are of interest because they refer to customs that a person performs in ones own home, namely sharing food with a nature spirit who is an honored guest (blót), and setting a shrine for one. In these compound nouns, the female goð is the recipient.

Snorris Edda uses the terms gyðja and gyðjur, exclusively mean female goð. It never means ‘priestess’.



When translating certain Norse texts (Ynglingasaga) some earlier translators have rendered gyðja erroneously into English as ‘priestess’. These contexts are euhemeristic accounts of goð, such as portraying Óðinn as a quasi-historical human mage. Likewise, the references to gyðjur are female goð. (No priestesses.) For example, the euhemerized Freyr and Njǫrðr are a declared blót-goð, meaning a spirit who receives food offerings, and likewise Freyja becomes a blót-gyðja, of same meaning, a female spirit who receives food offerings. Here the terms goð and gyðja can only refer to the nature spirits themselves.

Similarly, euhemerized Óðinn (a goð) gets too weak after performing seiðr, so he has mainly ‘gyðjur’ (female goð) do it.

The terms goð and gyðja only mean nature spirits here. There are no priests or priestesses in these contexts.

There are neither priests nor priestesses in indigenous Norse animistic culture.



Modern Germanic neopagans today use the terms goði/gyðja as a title for their modern ‘priest/priestess’. However this neologism has no existence in historical Norse folkbelief.
 
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Modern ‘Germanic neopagans’ have invented the term goði/gyðja for their own modern priests. But this neologism appears absent from historical Norse folkbelief.
Except for the already-mentioned runic inscriptions and placenames where it appears.

This modern neopagan wish to believe that their religion was ‘always’ that way, appears to be the source of some disinformation about Norse folkbelief.
Don't blame neopagans for this. The word predates them by quite a ways.

In Old Norse texts, gyðja is the feminine form of goð. (Linguistically, the performance of the o-vowel appears to palatize into a y-vowel while assimilating into -ðj.)
This is partially true. Gyðja could certainly be used as the feminine of goð. (Like I said, it is actually derived from guð. The u palatalizes into y; o would have become ǫ.) However, it is also attested to mean "priestess", the feminine of goði. There are multiple women in Landnámabók identified as gyðja or hofgyðja, just as men are identified as goði. What's more, the word continues to mean "priestess" in modern Icelandic.

When translating certain Norse texts (Ynglingasaga) some earlier translators have rendered gyðja erroneously into English as ‘priestess’. These contexts are euhemeristic accounts of goð, such as portraying Óðinn as a quasi-historical human mage. Likewise, the references to gyðjur are female goð. (No priestesses.) For example, the euhemerized Freyr and Njǫrðr are a declared blót-goð, meaning a spirit who receives food offerings, and likewise Freyja becomes a blót-gyðja, of same meaning, a female spirit who receives food offerings. Here the terms goð and gyðja can only refer to the nature spirits themselves.
If they are euhemerized, then they are not gods or "nature spirits" or anything supernatural. They are human beings. That's what makes it euhemerism. If you think that the figures in this text are intended to be nature spirits, you fundamentally misunderstand what is going on here. Furthermore, Ynglingasaga regularly uses these words not just for Odin and Frey and the other euhemerized gods, but for their followers as well, and describes these people as raising temples and conducting sacrifices. So "priest" and "priestess" are clearly the correct translations. And repetitious denial doesn't make it any less so.
 

BookBarbarian

Expert Long Rester
The idea is, the sight of a flash of lightning *is* the hammer of þórr. The impact of the hammer is the thunder clap. His hammer, obviously, returns to his hand because it is possible to see several lightningbolts in rapid succession.

He is an animistic spirit, the conscious presence of a thunderstorm. When people see a storm, they are actually looking at þórr.

When the Norse describe the summer storm, they characterize it as a kind of heroic champion, a fierce warrior.ְ

So is he casting spells or throwing a Magic Hammer?

Is this even a discussion of animistic spirits or mythological figures? If it's the former I think dave2008 thoughts are more and more correct. A character does not well represent an animistic spirit. If it's the latter I would rather it be based on the tales of the adventuring Thor in the realms of Jotun, Aesir, than how he was interpreted in the sky by Northern Europeans.
 

Yaarel

He Mage
So is he casting spells or throwing a Magic Hammer?

... He is magically throwing a magical hammer.

Þórr is more like a psychic warrior, or a superhero, who channels the magic into physical feats, super strength, super toughness, and so on.

Something like adding his Charisma bonus to his AC.

His intimidating presence strikes disabling fear into the hearts of his enemies.

If in a rage, his eyes spark electrically, and if I recall correctly, his nostrils flare with fire. This suggests an aura of lightning and fire.



Is this even a discussion of animistic spirits or mythological figures? If it's the former I think dave2008 thoughts are more and more correct. A character does not well represent an animistic spirit. If it's the latter I would rather it be based on the tales of the adventuring Thor in the realms of Jotun, Aesir, than how he was interpreted in the sky by Northern Europeans.

This is animism. In this case, having a nature spirit as a friend is literally the same thing as having a thunderstorm as a friend. The friend shows up to rain on you when you need water, or to chase an arctic blizzard away, maybe hurl lightning at someone who tries to harm you.

These nature spirits also have psychological qualities. In the case of Coyote, the animal inspires a sense of humor, pranks, and goodhearted trickery. In the case of Þórr, the storm inspires a sense of heroism, courage, defending the weak, honoring oaths, and so on.

In the Norse worldview, shamanic techniques enable psychically powerful individuals to send their consciousness outofbody, even to manifest physically elsewhere. They often did this to manifest into the form of an animal, to utilize the characteristics of the animal.

The other nature spirits, besides humans, are doing something similar. The thunderstorm is a living psychic presence. But at the same time, the psychically powerful presences can project their consciousness in a human or animal form. When the nature spirit does this, he seems quite human. Physical manifestations seem rare, but are known. For example, Óðinn the muse is said to visit humans incognito.

In prehistoric worldviews, what we might call ‘parables’ are the way that cultures record and transmit information about the world around them. Among the Norse, the seasons changing from winter to summer, are understood as the friendly thunderstorm defeating deadly arctic ice and blizzards. This parable is the mode of cognition − is the way experiences are understood − is the reality. To these semi-hunter-gatherer cultures, the features of nature have very human (or very animalistic) qualities. Natural phenomena interact with each other in human ways.

A human has a physical body, and a psychic inner life.

At a sensory physical level, it is a thunderstorm, and at a meaningful psychic level, it is a living person.
 
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Yaarel

He Mage
There are no priests in Landnámabók, the ‘Book of Land Acquisitions’, sometimes called the Book of Settlements.

This book records accounts of families who settled Iceland. In various vignettes, it refers to the distinctive Viking Era Icelandic political system.

There were thirty six local parliaments. Later thirty nine. The Norse term for a ‘parliament’ is a Þing. Generally, each parliament comprises the people of a particular farming community. They gather in an open air sacred space. Everyone shows up, and they elect for themselves an executive leader who they call a goði. Norwegians call this indigenous government leader a jarl. In scale the goði is more like a local ‘mayor’, but in function more like a ‘president’, being an elected official who is responsible for the administration of the community as well as being the commander in chief of local warriors.

In general, the goði tends to get reelected, even their children become the goði of the next generation. A protestor is more likely to formally join up with a different nearby Þing, where an other person is the goði. Sometimes two goði might co-rule over a Þing.

The local parliament also elects a judge (usually chosen by the goði) who heads the judicial system, called the lǫgsǫgumaður, the ‘law sayer’. The lawsayer clarifies the law and adjudicates local family disputes.

In the Icelandic texts, including Landnámabók, the title goði always refers to this political leader. Sometimes goði gets translated into English as ‘chieftain’, noting the political role and clout, but missing the connotation parliamentary consent.

When referring to one of these many local goðar, the tradition is to refer one as, ‘So-and-so goði’. (In the US we say ‘President So-and-so’, but the Norse say, ‘So-and-so president’.)

Examples of these political leaders mentioned by name include: Grímkell goði, Sturla goði, Þormóður goði, Arnkell goði, Snorri goði, etcetera.

Women voted in these parliaments, and sometimes ran for political office. Two women served as the goði of their local parliaments. When Landnámabók mentions them by name, it uses the feminine form of title goði, namely gyðja.

Two women mentioned by name as ‘chieftains’, political leaders, are: Þuríð gyðja, Þorlaug gyðja.



Note, elsewhere, there are individual women whose personal name is Gyðja. For example, there is a female skald who has this name. In these cases, some women are named Gyðja ‘helpful nature spirit’, in the same way that some men are named Alfr ‘elf’.



Aboriginal Norse animism lacks the concept of a priesthood. There are no priests. In Norse texts, every occurrence of gyðja either means the animistic ‘helpful nature spirit’ (the feminine form of goð), or it means the political ‘chieftain’ of the parliament (the same-sounding feminine form of the title goði).
 
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In the Icelandic texts, including Landnámabók, the title goði always refers to this elected political leader.
You say that as if elected political leaders cannot also be religious leaders. I could make some general arguments against this distinction such as, for instance, the Pope, but I don't really have to: by your own earlier description of a goði's function, he regularly invokes the gods at public events. Which should not be surprising, given that the term is derived directly from goð.

And you speak of Icelandic texts, but you still haven't said a word about the mainland texts, even though they've been pointed out to you repeatedly. Here it is in Denmark:
[sblock=Image]View attachment 98478[/sblock]

When the text mentions them by name, it use the feminine form of title goði, namely gyðja.
The feminine form of the title goði which you previously tried to argue did not exist historically?

Aboriginal Norse animism lacks the concept of a priesthood. There are no priests.
The textual and archaeological evidence strongly suggests otherwise, and repeating this claim will not make the evidence go away. There were people who regularly killed animals and performed other ritualistic acts with the intent of currying the favor of supernatural beings, in structures they owned and maintained specifically for this purpose. You may bend over backwards to avoid using the words "temple", "god", "sacrifice", and "priest", but for a person not so invested in whatever theory you're trying to push, this vocabulary describes the situation without difficulty.

In Norse texts, every occurrence of gyðja either means the animistic ‘helpful nature spirit’ (the feminine form of goð), or it means the political ‘president’ of the parliament (the same sounding feminine form of the title goði).
In Ynglingasaga, it cannot mean either of those things. It cannot mean "helpful nature spirit" (or even "god") because the text was written by a euhemerizing Christian, and it cannot mean "president of the parliament" because it is not set in the medieval Icelandic republic(ish state). It refers to human beings who serve god-figures, build temples, and conduct religious rituals in them. Again: most people would call those "priests".
 

Yaarel

He Mage
[MENTION=6683613]TheCosmicKid[/MENTION]

Your repeated claim about some Norse ‘priest’ is wrong. No amount of fast-talking or insults can stop you from being wrong.



If you want to sort thru the known evidence, I am happy to go thru it with you.

If you just want to make this about your ego, and a weird craving to win arguments at any cost, then I am disinterested.
 

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