who should choose familiar/spells DM or player?

[rgard]

4. Tell the DM to come read this: EN World

Well linked!

 

[Lanefan]

I've played both wizard and sorcerer and I far and away prefer the wizard. I like having the bonus feats, the access to more spells and the faster progression of spell levels.

Fair enough. I'm thinking of 3.0 sorcerors here; no idea if they changed much in 3.5, but if I'm a sorceror, give me blast spells and a meat shield, wind me up, and turn me loose. Who needs skills, or feats, or other spells?

From what I dimly remember, I'm going to hazard a guess that giving sorcerors full choice of spells was a 3.5 invention, as it doesn't sound familiar from 3.0...but I could be wrong.

Lanefan

 

[rgard]

Fair enough. I'm thinking of 3.0 sorcerors here; no idea if they changed much in 3.5, but if I'm a sorceror, give me blast spells and a meat shield, wind me up, and turn me loose. Who needs skills, or feats, or other spells?

From what I dimly remember, I'm going to hazard a guess that giving sorcerors full choice of spells was a 3.5 invention, as it doesn't sound familiar from 3.0...but I could be wrong.

Lanefan

Yes, the sorcerer has a full choice of arcane spells to choose from, but he/she is still limited on the number that the sorcerer can know. For example, a 4th level sorcerer knows 6 different '0' level spells, 3 different 1st level spells and 1 2nd level spell.

So looking at the 1st level selection, the sorcerer could know magic missile, shocking grasp and color spray. He can cast those in any combination up to a max of 6 spells per day plus and bonus slots for a high charisma. There are some variants somewhere that detail how a sorcerer can 'unknow' a spell and substitute a new one, but it's not a frequent option IIRC.

What you describe is how I play a sorcerer. I always take mm, cs, sg for 1st level spells and scorching ray for a 2nd level spell. The hard part for me was deciding whether to take fly or lightning bolt as the 3rd level spell the character knows at 6th level.

If I join a group that already has a wizard being played, I would definitely play a sorcerer as it is fun to blast more often. If I'm playing the only arcane character, I stick with wizard.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[BlackMoria]

Hmmm. What terms are left.....

unreasonable, jackass, anal, prick, dip, jerk, capricious, and arbitrary have been used.

Hmmm. I got it. The DM sounds quite regimented.

Really.... if you can't pick your familiar or your spells, why in hell would anyone want to be pick a sorceror in his campaign?

His notion of what is role playing verses roll playing is....well, odd.... and if it was my character under the circumstances, there would some serious dicussion about this and the distinct possibility of that character being retired and me building the most power gamey build I could do under his narrow framework of what is allowed. He would get a fast lesson of roll playing verses role playing. Choosing your familiar and your spells is not roll playing - not by any stretch and if he thinks it is, I would show him how wrong he is with the most power gaming build I could do under his rules. If he can't make the distinction at that point, I suggest you find another game.

 

[pawsplay]

So, basically, your GM hates sorcerers. He doesn't let you choose your familiar. He's hosing your basic class features, since sorcerers only know so many spells to begin with. He's really hosing the party, too, since he's paring down the group's sorcerer. Heck, you're lucky he let you pick sorcerer and didn't make you roll your class, too.

It sounds like your GM needs more experience on the other side of the screen.

 

[darthkilmor]

Another vote for jerk DM.

If he's not going to let you play a sorc by the rules, I would simply say Fine, i'm not gonna be a sorc, I'll take another level of ranger.

If he was being a jerk about it I'd just start rolling for everything. Do you go down the hall ? Roll. Hi, i'm <roll>, glad to meet you. Who do I attack? Roll. Really, he's being the "roll" player if he's making you roll for familiar and spells. Might as well roll for what feats you take next too. Why have any decision about what your character does? If you're a real ROLE player you'll make up some excuse for why you took weapon focus( sap ) and can't cast any decent spells. </sarcasm>

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Tell him you won't have any fun that way and see what he thinks. Maybe your D&D styles don't mesh. It happens. Personally i banned the sorcerer from my 3.0 Greyhawk game but nobody cared so it wasn't a big deal.

 

[Nellisir]

Frankly, I wouldn't bet on this guy letting you pick your feats and skills, either. I could just see him deciding what skills you "practiced" during your last level, and telling you how your points are spent this level. And, oops - you didn't crit anyone last level -- no Improved Critical for you!

The players get their characters. The DM gets EVERYTHING else. He needs to give.

 

[taliesin15]

I could understand if you wanted your familiar to be something absurdly overpowered, say a Lich Flumpf, or a Pseudo-Dragon with Divine Powers or something, but you wanted to have a *cat*?! I think only a toad might be less powerful on the list...

As to choosing the spells, I think this is a more debatable thing. Seemed like 1.0 AD&D had a chart where players could roll to see if that 1st lvl spell was in their spellbook and so forth. I forget what the rules say now, but as a DM in 3rd edition, I've generally let the players pick most of them, and I pick 1 or 2 of them. I also tend to give spellcasters an extra spell or two at low levels, FWIW.

The one area where I think DM fiat is in order has to do with framing the characters within the DM's milieu. After a player tried to have a character from overseas (the milieu was 500 miles inland) and claim to have Knowledge(Local) for the town he just walked into, I decided it was far better to try to give possible background scenarios for players to pick from, and work with them fleshing them out. The main reason to do this is to bring them into the nest of possible adventure, a context that made some sense, and might involve families and communities where they came from.

 

[Nyaricus]

Isn't this a really bad case of roll playing? I mean he's rolling for the character you're playing. A dice roll shouldn't determine what your character wants to do or his inclinations.

Ding! Ding! Call the DM on this, because he is being ridiculous about his rulings. I wouldn't want to play in a game in which my character was dictated out to me. Everyone who has posted thus far is right: you get only your character, and the DM gets everything else. This is borderline ridiculous.

Hmmm. What terms are left.....

unreasonable, jackass, anal, prick, dip, jerk, capricious, and arbitrary have been used.

Hmmm. I got it. The DM sounds quite regimented.

And you.... I like you