who should choose familiar/spells DM or player?

[sjmiller]

The sorcerer class has two class features which make them unique. One is selecting the familiar. The other is selecting spells. That's all the special wizbang a sorcerer gets. There's no bonus feat, no special abilities, nothing. If the DM is removing the only unique choices a sorcerer gets, why would anyone choose that class? If I am not completely off my mark, the PH says that you, and not the DM, get to select the familiar. I believe it says the same for spells.

You should really ask the DM why he has decided to remove player selection from the only 2 things special about a sorcerer. If he gives you the whole "role-playing over roll-playing" line again ask him what his real, core problem is with the sorcerer. Does he not like it? It seems to me that he has a problem with the sorcerer concept.

 

[rgard]

Eighteen posts in and all the posters in broad agreement? I don't think I've ever seen the like of this before.

Surely someone is going to stick up for the DM at some point? <SNIP>

Nay, the DM is a prick.

19 posts now as I just agreed with myself!

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Crothian]

Tell the DM no. Its your character and familiars are more powerful and more useful then he things.

 

[Agent Oracle]

As for sorcerors, all I can say is that is one class I'd like to see just Go Away. I appreciate the flavour behind them, but the result (particularly if they can choose their spells-known) is rather ugly...who would *ever* want to play a wizard again?

Lanefan

(raises hand) Someone who wants more spells per day, access to higher level spells sooner, and a more complete spell list? Oh, and more skill points because their primary attribute for spell casting ability also feeds their skills? That one-level delay in the sorcerer spell progression really has a powerful impact on their development.

Oh yeah, I agree with ST: the DM is being a dip. Ask him about the rest of his house rules that holdover from AD&D. Do Rogues have to be behind their enemies for a backstab? Do fighters stop gaining HP after 10th level? Do you get to roll for 18 / 00 str?

 

[rgard]

Eighteen posts in and all the posters in broad agreement? I don't think I've ever seen the like of this before.

Surely someone is going to stick up for the DM at some point? This is the internet, folks!

Anyway, its not going to be me.

The players of sorcerers choosing their spells doesn't make sense? What about rogues getting evasion, or barbarians getting damage reduction? I don't think those rules make sense either, but they certainly make for a fun game.

Will he be rolling up random spells for the NPC sorcerers you meet? If so, I suggest you attack them on sight. Chances are they will be lacking defensively, or offensively, or both i.e. free XP.

Will he allow you to use the variant rule in the PHB2, where you can give up your familiar in return for spontaneous metamagic not beiong a full round action?

I'd also try and get him to allow the bloodline feats from the Dragon Compendium. They are great for role-playing potential, and the incidental power-up is irrelevant unless the DM wants to be a roll player .....

Thinking some more...and I'm a bit bored. Yes, we seem to be in agreement that the DM is wrong to do this Elf Witch, but we have managed to come up with different suggestions on how to deal with this:

1. Tell the DM 'no', which means Elf Witch goes ahead and says 'I pick these spells and this is my familiar...and I've written them all on my character sheet.' The DM's reaction should be interesting.

Switching to 2nd person where 'you' is you, Elf Witch.

2. Walk away from the game and find one where the DM is not capricious and arbitrary. Could be problematic if the DM is part of your social circle, but you would get your point across assuming you explained why you left.

3. Try to reason with the DM. Good luck.

Another thing you could do is accept whatever spells and familiar he chooses. Then use them at the most ridiculous moments in the game. If you get 'Erase' try to erase the smirk off the Orc Chieftain's face with the spell. Cast Hold Portal on a tree stump. Have your Unseen Servant wander about during combat and have it comb your character's hair on it's action. Try to teach your toad familiar how to fly. You might have some fun in the process and it would be a good prelude to number 2 above.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[freebfrost]

I have to fall in with the "it's the DM's game" camp. Yes, the DM is the one with the time and effort invested into making the game work - regardless of how long the players spend making their characters, it pales in comparison to the amount of work required by a (proficient) DM.

Now having said that, I'm not big on the DM throwing their weight around either. The DM runs the game, but the point is for everyone to have fun, so I'd have some issues here, especially since the DM doesn't seem willing to compromise on this.

In my games, I may *suggest* certain familiar types that I think would be most beneficial, but that's only because I have more sourcebooks than my players. I also sometimes suggest spells, but if I want to introduce a new spell for example, I'll let the players find it or grant it as a bonus in addition to spells they select.

Having said that, I guess I also fall into the "DM is being a jerk" camp too.

 

[Fenes]

Just tell the DM that having him play your character is not fun, and ask if he really wants to drive you away, then explain that yes, really, you have no fun playing by those rules, and that game balance will not be affected since he can veto spells anyway.

 

[rgard]

<SNIP>

As for sorcerors, all I can say is that is one class I'd like to see just Go Away. I appreciate the flavour behind them, but the result (particularly if they can choose their spells-known) is rather ugly...who would *ever* want to play a wizard again?

Lanefan

I've played both wizard and sorcerer and I far and away prefer the wizard. I like having the bonus feats, the access to more spells and the faster progression of spell levels.

To each his own, of course.

As a DM, I find the sorcerer is a bit easier to NPC as there is less thought involved on my part when it comes to spell selection and what to cast each round of combat.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[theemrys]

If his big concern is the roleplaying aspect, offer to write up a detailed background of how you found the familiar and the circumstances when the spells (you picked) first manifested and how...

I say it's your choice, but I also would want my players to tie it all in somehow...

 

[AntiStateQuixote]

Thinking some more...and I'm a bit bored. Yes, we seem to be in agreement that the DM is wrong to do this Elf Witch, but we have managed to come up with different suggestions on how to deal with this:
<snip>

Thanks,
Rich

4. Tell the DM to come read this: EN World