Scaling to small party size

[Xanaqui]

I've played roughly 10 encounters with a party size of 2 (Wizard and Paladin), and 5 with a party size of 3 (Wizard, Paladin, and Rogue). In the former case, all party members were level 1; In the later case, 2 were level 2, and the other (Rogue) was level 1.

I attempted to scale the encounters linearly (2/5 and 3/5 of the recommended values respectively). I noticed the following, and I was wondering if it's a common experience, or if it's unusual.

With the 2-member party, virtually every combat was rough. Daily powers were almost always opening moves, and Action points were almost always spent by the second round. It seems like we were back to the 5-minute adventuring day, and even worse, we couldn't afford assault in our sleep.

With the 3-member party (despite one party member being a level low), combats were far better; action points were not used during every combat, dailies (and occasionally encounter powers) were unused some of the time, and this was even with most encounters being a bit strong (75 XP above allowance).

So from the above, it seems that to scale to 2 party members, we'd have to reduce the strength of the creatures further (maybe -25% XP?). Does anyone else have similar or different experiences with playing with small parties?

 

[jeff0]

My group has gone through parts of KotS alternately with four or five PCs. It seemed to me that what you're saying might be true, but I haven't played enough to be certain.

In your case, it might just be suboptimal class choice that was hurting your two PC party. Wizards are at their most effective when there are lots of enemies to blast (i.e. in larger parties). I imagine that a two PC party of a Paladin and a Rogue (or Ranger, or Warlock) would do considerably better.

 

[Mengu]

Two person party doesn't work well with the system. When one of them goes down, you've lost 50% of your resources, which pretty much means the other person is about to go down as well. For a party of 4, one member down only means 25% loss, and the rest can still put up a good fight.

I think ideally, you don't want to play with less than 4, or more than 6 characters. It's possible, and there is advice in the DMG for it, but you pretty much have to change some of your design process for the encounters.

 

[Victim]

The ability to heal as a minor action on a per encounter basis - ie, the leader class - is a huge deal.

To put things simply, most characters can deal decent damage. Many characters will be able to spend the feats to get a good AC - a warlord or melee cleric can end up in Scale without too much trouble. Even a wizard can end up with decent AC with Leather armor and high INT. But healing powers are harder to substitute for.

For a small group, I'd start with melee leader with armor or shield feats for tanking and healing power, and then add characters from there.

Our 15th level group with a Fey Warlock, controller type wizard, and spear+shield fighter was having a lot of trouble too. When the group's only per encounter heals (Second Winds) are 1 per person and take a standard action to use, every point of damage is painful. And defender based strategies and defensive tactics from other characters can actually be a huge problem, since the tank is still only healing once. If someone isn't taking any damage, then the group basically has only 2/3rds of their healing ability.

Also, having fewer characters is going be especially problematic at low levels. At higher levels, you can make encounters with several lower enemies instead a few equal level guys. At level one or two, you're already pretty much at the floor. Similarly, at very high levels, there will also be trouble because of the proportion of elites and solos.

 

[frankthedm]

For a 2 Player group, 2 characters each is going to be needed, maybe some hirelings too.

 

[balard]

For 2 players group you have to create the encounter carefully. For a wizard and a paladin, use manly minions and one guy of the right level. Other option is give -8 hp to each monster to compensate the absence of a striker and help things out. And without leaders, the ever needed healing potions are a must. Try to alocate at least 1 per encounter for your players. Like if you want then fighting against 5 encounters that day, put up 5 potions.

But the monster weakening is a good way to balance things. Less hp so the wizard can take many with 2 AoE spells, and the paladin can make kick work with melee attacks.

Try to put a healer with then if you don't like this way. A lantern archon with healing word and a lance of faith or a Jorasco Halfling(if you are in eberron).

 

[Palladion]

Because of the expected balance between the 4 roles (and a party of 5), when you get down below 4 characters there are gaps in the party ability. Be a little more liberal (and encouraging) with potions of healing (when missing a leader), give more terrain advantages (when missing a defender), do not swarm the party (when missing a controller), and try to use less high hit point monsters (when missing a striker). Each role has a focus, so try to play the monsters and encounters to their focus and do as balard say about modifying.

Hope that helps...

 

[mattdm]

For a 2 Player group, 2 characters each is going to be needed, maybe some hirelings too.

Rather than 2 characters each, one might try the "gestalt" approach — each player has one character, but that character has two classes, getting the powers and features of each, but only one character's worth of actions per turn. Probably using a higher-than-normal point buy, too — just eyeballing it, it doesn't look like it'd even be too awful to double the normal point buy allocation to 44 points.

This makes it much easier to keep the game a role-playing game rather than becoming focused on the minis.

 

[frankthedm]

Rather than 2 characters each, one might try the "gestalt" approach — each player has one character, but that character has two classes, getting the powers and features of each, but only one character's worth of actions per turn. Probably using a higher-than-normal point buy, too.

There won't be enough HP to soak foes attacks. 4E seems pretty intent on players being hit and routinely using healing surges. Besides having level factored AC that is difficult to boost, cover [improved] went from -4 [-8] to -2 [-5], fighting defensively bonus got cut in half and ranged attacks phase through allies. All of that contributes to needing the full allotment of party HP.

 

[mattdm]

There won't be enough HP to soak foes attacks.

So give each character the HP from both classes.