Yet another "4.0 impressions" thread

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Is this where the 4e fans would say you lack imagination?

Also, I'm glad the game follows your rules, but I don't see why it was neccesary to REMOVE rules that the rest of us liked.

WotC has never been able to find my house when we did something they said not to do.

I'm pretty sure it's safe to play an evil character, no matter what the DMG says.

 

[Mercurius]

EvilBob, nice post--I really enjoyed it. And I agree about most of the art. It seems WotC has entered a kind of "Rob Liefeld phase" of art: style over skill.

Brian Gibbons, that makes more sense to me--I like your interpretation and hope that is how WotC meant it. I haven't read that section yet so I'll have to form my own opinion, though.

 

[Aqua Vitae]

EvilBob, nice post--I really enjoyed it. And I agree about most of the art. It seems WotC has entered a kind of "Rob Liefeld phase" of art: style over skill.

It was aesthetic shock therapy for me, however, to look at the covers and then open up the books. Most of the interior art was fine...didn't care to much for the cover art.

 

[Doug McCrae]

I lost count of the number of times the DMG cautioned against something because it would be "boring" or some synonym of boring. I can't tell if this is one of those "how to bring in casual players" things or one of those "kids these days have no attention spans" things.

I have a pretty low boredom threshold compared to other rpgers. For example, I can't be arsed keeping track of arrows and rations. All that stuff about "Don't be boring"? I could not agree more. Seriously, this whole edition, it's like it was written specifically for me.

There is a demon or devil in the MM that has some side-boob action going on, but otherwise nothing in any of the books couldn't be in a Disney movie. As above: I understand the motive of trying to draw in all types of new/casual players, but I'm also ready to be treated like an adult teenager in desperate need of time-wasting material.

FIFY!

 

[Mokona]

D&D is rated G. There is a demon or devil in the MM that has some side-boob action going on, but otherwise nothing in any of the books couldn't be in a Disney movie. As above: I understand the motive of trying to draw in all types of new/casual players, but I'm also ready to be treated like an adult, please.

Actually, adults find decent art attractive. Nudity, revealing attire, blood, and gore do not make you an adult though we restrict those things (generally) to adults. [Insert "all Corvettes are Cars but not all Cars are Corvettes reference here.] I would like my demons to be tastefully attired if they're effectively human looking or at least not wearing a chain as a thong or hiding their privates behind strategically place ponytails.

Perhaps Wizards of the Coast pays attention to the fact that G and PG rated movies consistently outsell PG-13 and R rated movies (too bad Hollywood is barely noticing this fact).

I first played Dungeons & Dragons when I was 10 years old. As far as I can tell the majority of D&D customers on ENWorld also started playing before their 13th birthday. So modest art in the Core Rules seems appropriate and I daresay that the art in 4th edition is PG given the amount of violence.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Perhaps Wizards of the Coast pays attention to the fact that G and PG rated movies consistently outsell PG-13 and R rated movies (too bad Hollywood is barely noticing this fact).

I would question whether that holds true for DVD sales and overseas sales as well.

And this may be heresy, but if the creative folks in Hollywood don't want to turn out endless G-rated movies, I don't want to force them to and then sit through the results.

 

[ironvyper]

Actually, adults find decent art attractive. Nudity, revealing attire, blood, and gore do not make you an adult though we restrict those things (generally) to adults. [Insert "all Corvettes are Cars but not all Cars are Corvettes reference here.] I would like my demons to be tastefully attired if they're effectively human looking or at least not wearing a chain as a thong or hiding their privates behind strategically place ponytails.

I guess i'm wierd then, going on 26 and i really want to see more nudity, not just in D&D but pretty much everywhere. People are far too uptight about skin, real or art. its always been a huge component of fantasy art to have some skin showing and i dont particularly like the watering down of gaming in general that WoTC has done. The art is just a sympton, not the desease, but its an annoying symptom.

Perhaps Wizards of the Coast pays attention to the fact that G and PG rated movies consistently outsell PG-13 and R rated movies (too bad Hollywood is barely noticing this fact).

I first played Dungeons & Dragons when I was 10 years old. As far as I can tell the majority of D&D customers on ENWorld also started playing before their 13th birthday. So modest art in the Core Rules seems appropriate and I daresay that the art in 4th edition is PG given the amount of violence.

They might be looking at sales of movie tickets, but they should pay more attention to national test score report cards. Depending on your state only between 18% and 34% of 13 year olds tested at or above the proficient level of reading.

So while it might be marketed to try to appeal to middle school kids who enjoy WoW type of games, very few of them are capable of actually reading and understanding it...... makes you wonder if this was really a good decision or not.

http://measuringup.highereducation.org/nationalpicture/

 

[Umbran]

FIFY!

Please don't do that. The humor value is rather outweighed by it's cheese-off potential. Effectively, you're claiming that's what he really said, and putting words in other people's mouths annoys them, and starts arguments.

 

[Umbran]

Well, some people who play D&D are a little bit off the beam, as it were, and those who force alignments, one way or the other, almost always are.

I'm going to ask that you stop making generalized assertions about the mental state or health of an individual based upon how they like to play a game. It is unsupportable, insulting, and not acceptable on these boards.

For everyone - note how I've already given two civility notes in this thread? That's your cue to be on your best behavior from this point onward. Thank you for your cooperation.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

They might be looking at sales of movie tickets, but they should pay more attention to national test score report cards. Depending on your state only between 18% and 34% of 13 year olds tested at or above the proficient level of reading.

So while it might be marketed to try to appeal to middle school kids who enjoy WoW type of games, very few of them are capable of actually reading and understanding it...... makes you wonder if this was really a good decision or not.

Given that there's a metric ton of reading in every MMO, I think aiming at that audience is just fine.

The below-reading-standards demographic, while they are online, aren't typically the voracious online consumers that most MMO players are. (Although the illiterates and subliterates -- and I don't know of a less pejorative term that we can use, when talking about people who are testing so poorly -- certainly do stand out there, as they do everywhere they appear online.) Anecdotal evidence here and in other RPG forums also suggests that RPG games have traditionally appealed to folks with above average reading levels, and that gamers who didn't start off that way were dragged into higher reading levels by EGG and his verbose counterparts.

And, for the record, every time I log onto WoW now, someone brings up 4E, either for good or for ill, in guild chat. WotC has certainly gotten the attention of a lot of online gamers, many of whom, at least in my guild, haven't played D&D since Reagan was president. That's something any business would be pleased to accomplish.