Haggling: rules, guidelines, suggestions?

[keterys]

So, what is your goal here...?

1) Give out more treasure and gold
2) Make buying magic items a better option than using what's found
3) Maintain suspension of disbelief by removing crazy %
4) Prevent player uproar over 'being cheated'
5) Just make the magic mart stuff more involved in play

For example, if it's just #3 and #4, reduce the amount of extra gold people sell items for from the treasure parcels you hand out. If they run out of treasure parcels to draw on, they can't sell their items or it drops back down to 20%. Easy way to show that the market can only sustain a certain influx at any particular time, make people happier, and maintain core balance.

If you want to give out more magic items and treasure, then ignore the parcels and figure out how much more you want to give out, then base the amount around that. I'd suggest that it not be a flat % that increases with level, but the DC be based on the magic item level so it scales without removing the possibility of a real % increase at low level. One thing to consider is how long the 'retry' is on some of these checks or if they have to take the result, whatever it is... that is, if they have a chance of getting between 20% and 50% and roll 25%... are they allowed to turn that down, and try again for 50% after X time, or another level, or... never?

If you want to make selling what you get and buying custom stuff a better option... well, that fits 3e and I personally strongly disagree with this concept as both a player and DM, but... if that's what you want, go for it.

For #5 - you might want to make sure that the players _actually_ want to make rolls and skill checks and RP getting more money and wouldn't rather just go 'Oh, and everything sells for 50% instead'. Or whatever. It's one thing to roleplay talking with townspeople, but honestly no matter how cool the shopkeeper is, I hit a quick limit on how much _I_ want to deal with the math involved (so, I do this to get another 5%...etc)

 

[SteveC]

Grog say you pay 300 gold for axe! Or Grog make you eat axe!

"I'm sorry, Grog, but the skill challenge rules say that Intimidate is an automatic failure in haggle challenges..."

"Allow Grog to tell you what he think of skill challenge rules..."

 

[Danceofmasks]

Just saying, Grog would simply "haggle" by hacking the poor merchant, possibly choosing to unconscious him at 0 hp instead of killing him, then making the 300 gp trade.

Such things as violence and social protocol is a function of culture.

 

[DLichen]

But Grog doesn't take everything the guys owns after knocking him out, cause Grog has standards.

Grog sounds like a man of real honor and integrity, I would vote Grog into office anytime.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Grog is a man of honor an integrity!
Where Grog come from, strong merchant get better prices!
Weak merchant stop being merchant, and dig trenches instead!

 

[Danceofmasks]

This is amusing, so I'm going to run with it abit more ...
It's obviously over the top, but we gotta remember that we're not playing humans in alien suits. We're playing aliens. err, or bugbears. or something.


Village get raided every week!
If people not strong, they not protect their goods, or their family!
Grog hero!
Grog protect village people (tee hee) every week by beating back raiders!
Grog help weak merchant and merchant family and make him dig trench. Become strong.

If Grog not knock merchant unconscious, Grog let merchant down. Grog let merchant family down. Grog let whole town down if merchant goods get raided.
Grog responsible. Grog must teach merchant to be good merchant!

 

[Tuft]

Starfox,
I don't mean to pick on you here, but this is exactly the sort of response that people who don't like 4E are pointing to when they say "4E is all about combat and has nothing to do with roleplaying."

My players most definitely do not want to roleplay the home shopping network. They have trained the diplomacy skill, and one of the things that it says you can do with it is haggle. There just aren't any rules for how to do that in the game (at least apparently that's the case, since I suspect someone would have pointed them out by now if they were in there).

Of course I can handle the haggling by fiat, but then it makes the players investment in the skill a bit less worthwhile, and makes my players a little more frustrated that they can't do something the rules tell them they can.

Thanks to everyone for ideas, by the way ... I'm most likely going to use a combo of FranktheDM's idea with the standard difficulty chart, because I'm not interested in making this into something as involved as a Skill Challenge.

--Steve

I had a Shadowrun GM that was very fond of having the PC:s haggle over prices, which was very well defined in those rules. You had an availability rating, which was a DC for finding the item in question, and a Street Index, which was the mark-up on the item that varied from location to location, and then you could roll an opposed negotiation roll to further modify that price.

The same GM was also very fond of dumping his players into adventures without their loose gear, so you had to resupply the first thing that you did.

So, after a while, it all degenerated into the players passing around a piece of paper, where each wrote down his requirements, you gave that list to the player having the highest negotiation skill on his character, and then that player and the GM had a dice-and-pocket-calculator-fest for fifteen mins to an hour, while the rest of the players took a bio, made fresh coffee, discussed the latest movie, etc... When they had worked their way through the list, it was passed around again, and you could see which items you've recieved and at what cost. It was especially fun when you've gotten the gun but no ammo, or vice versa...

 

[Starfox]

Starfox,
I don't mean to pick on you here, but this is exactly the sort of response that people who don't like 4E are pointing to when they say "4E is all about combat and has nothing to do with roleplaying."

My players most definitely do not want to roleplay the home shopping network...

I think we are on the same page here, mostly. But letting players steal camera time for their own personal economy, when the game could move on to things interesting to everyone, is not a good idea. I much prefer using diplomacy to haggle with an employer over the team's payment or with the king for reinforcements than with a merchant for my personal goods.

Then again, if ALL your players enjoy this style, by all means indulge! Just make sure its not one player just hogging attention without either drama or character development.

This is amusing, so I'm going to run with it abit more ...
It's obviously over the top, but we gotta remember that we're not playing humans in alien suits. We're playing aliens. err, or bugbears. or something.


Village get raided every week!
If people not strong, they not protect their goods, or their family!
Grog hero!
Grog protect village people (tee hee) every week by beating back raiders!
Grog help weak merchant and merchant family and make him dig trench. Become strong.

If Grog not knock merchant unconscious, Grog let merchant down. Grog let merchant family down. Grog let whole town down if merchant goods get raided.
Grog responsible. Grog must teach merchant to be good merchant!

This might well be the beginning of government as an institution.

 

[Exen Trik]

I'd just run haggling as a low level skill challenge, and treat the money saved as "treasure". They even get some xp too. After all, if the players put time and effort into it, and there is some chance of failure, then why not?

 

[Starfox]

I'd just run haggling as a low level skill challenge, and treat the money saved as "treasure". They even get some xp too. After all, if the players put time and effort into it, and there is some chance of failure, then why not?

If you and your players like it, this is actually a very cool way to use the rules!