Midnight 2nd Edition

[Nebulous]

I am so very interested in this setting. However, I am fully into 4e now and I would LOVE to play this setting in 4th. edition. Anyone have any idea how difficult it would be to convert this into 4e?

First off, i LOVE Midnight and think it is one of the best things to ever come out of a third party. The quality is top notch, the setting interesting and evocative, and the classes better than the ones in the PHB 3.5.

As for converting to 4e...

I think it IS possible, but would be extremely difficult for the DM. You would have re-balance every class, and create new ones to replace the missing classes. Furthermore, Midnight already tweaked the existing magic system to make it less flamboyant at low level, so you would really have to sit down and think about that. The system is broken down by spell points, and actually, it works just fine as written.

I actually did an Ars Magica conversion to d20 Midnight several years ago that worked really well.

I wouldn't mind seeing a 4e take on Midnight, i think that the combat would be fun, but it would be a major challenge for a group of experienced game developers, and probably not a task for a single person.

Other things might work better. If 4E is as easy to run without magic items as they claim, then that would help, as characters in Midnight have only 1/4 the magic items regular 3E characters do.

Races...you'd have to throw out the Dragonborn and Eladrin probably.

The entire Healing Surge system would likely need to be thrown out. Midnight is deadly, and part of that deadliness is the scarcity of healing. If characters have easy access to healing, then it fundamentally changes a major component of the system.

The core Midnight 2.0 book was a real work of art. Because it didn't have to reprint the core stuff from the PHB, it used that space to focus fully on just the different classes, and then fluff. And it has some of the best fluff in any game book i've seen.

Yes, you would have to toss out the races, but i don't think that part would be too bad. But coming up with power lists for a class like the Defender, which is modeled after the 3.x monk (although better!) would be a huge pain in the butt.

Healing surges i don't think are a problem at all; you just have less tha default 4e. By and large, i think the magic system would be the most problematic.

EDIT: And maybe someone more in the know can explain this to me: under the new GSL, would it be possible to create a Midnight setting that modifies the way healing surges work in 4e, and classes that have different powers, and an alternate magic system? Or is that going against the new rules?

 

[buzz]

As for converting to 4e...

I think it IS possible, but would be extremely difficult for the DM.

Why can't you just focus on non-spellcasting classes and the basic situation ("Sauron won"), and maybe tweak healing surges? Are you really losing that much by not converting every single mechanical bit?

 

[Nebulous]

Why can't you just focus on non-spellcasting classes and the basic situation ("Sauron won"), and maybe tweak healing surges? Are you really losing that much by not converting every single mechanical bit?

You're losing a ton by not converting magic and spells i think. The flavor of magic in Midnight is very unique, even though it references the core 3.5 spells. Alternatively, i wonder what would happen if you used 4e non-magic classes and retained the Channeler class as written? Weirdness would ensure, i'm sure.

 

[Banshee16]

Why can't you just focus on non-spellcasting classes and the basic situation ("Sauron won"), and maybe tweak healing surges? Are you really losing that much by not converting every single mechanical bit?

Those changes are part of what makes the setting what it is....or at least they highlight what the setting is. A Midnight built that way would be as poor a conversion as a 3E Dark Sun that has sorcerers and paladins (particularly paladins). It just totally changes the setting.

Midnight was so well done that it stands on its own. It's really not that easy to just rip stuff out and convert bits because so many parts are tightly integrated....from the choices of spells, to the removal of teleport effects, the lack of Wish, the scarcity of magic items, low-powered spellcasters combined with the fact that they can be hunted down by Legates who can sense them from miles away...

It's all woven together, and fairly internally consistent. Start messing with it, and you can call it Midnight, but it's going to be a very different game. The entire premise of 4E flies in the face of how Midnight was designed. Heroes *will* die. And stay dead. They're not supposed to fight everything. It entirely works in 3E, but only by restricting magic and healing, for instance. Start changing those things and it no longer works the same way.

Banshee

 

[daddystabz]

In me looking over the situation with Midnight I think Castles & Crusades is the best overall fit for it. That will probably be what I do with for it.

 

[Banshee16]

Sounds like any version of D&D is a lousy fit for the setting.

Oh, hey: Burning Midnight

Why would you say that? Planescape was similar.....I had plenty of sessions where entire sessions were roleplaying, and there was no combat and we all enjoyed ourselves.

It just takes a willingness to think of other ways to get through situations, other than rolling dice.

Banshee

 

[buzz]

Why would you say that?

IMO, an RPG where 90% of the data on the character sheet is about combat, yet combat is so lethal (or such a poor choice for resolving a scenario) that you want to avoid it at all costs is a very bad combo.

 

[Nebulous]

IMO, an RPG where 90% of the data on the character sheet is about combat, yet combat is so lethal (or such a poor choice for resolving a scenario) that you want to avoid it at all costs is a very bad combo.

I don't agree, it totally depends on the how the DM runs it. My campaign, short as it was, was not as bleak as the implied setting, and they rarely shied from combat. The Shadow could be beat. Any version of D&D is geared toward combat, 4e more than any of them. 3.5 and Midnight was a great match that exceeded anything put out by most other companies in terms of quality, presentation and mechanics.

 

[buzz]

I don't agree, it totally depends on the how the DM runs it.

If you're saying that the D&D+Midnight combo works when the game has lots of combat then you're agreeing with me.

 

[mac1504]

I just wanted to add my voice to the collective here, and say that Midnight is one of the most enjoyable settings I've played in and ran a campaign in. I ran a 2+ year campaign, which was quite a feat for our group who wouldn't stick with a campaign for more than 6 months at a time.

It is well written, well-supported, and there is a great fan site (againsttheshadow.org- alas the site has been moved to some temporary server that I do not have the link to right now) tied to it that all made it a very rich setting to explore and game in.

Unfortunately, when we started the game there were only two modules out at the time (there was the free adventure in the back of the campaign book, and Crown of Shadow) so to pull off a campaign I ended up doing a lot of writing. I always had wished FFG would have released a mega-adventure for the setting (something along the lines of a Temple of Elemental Evil) that would allow a DM to take PCs from 1st to 10th level.

All in all, I can't recommend the setting enough. Even if you never run a single game in the setting, you would definitely be missing out if you didn't read through at least the Campaign Sourcebook.