D&D 4E You Don't Need a Healer in 4E... Yeah Right!

[keterys]

I also totally think that more offense often shaves off damage taken. Proactive healing, as it were.

 

[samursus]

Man, this thread is so relevant to my group. We have been playing Kobold Hall for the last few sessions to give everyone a chance to feel out the new edition rules. In the second to last encounter the Fighter died. Had no problem with the end encounter. Started up KotS, and on the 3rd encounter [/sblock](Dragon Burial Site)[/sblock] the Fighter AND the Paladin died.

Party has 6 PC's: Wizard, Rogue, Warlock, Ranger, Fighter, and a Paladin.

I have been scaling the encounters for 6 players, but they just aren't doing well without the increased heals during combat. At first the problem was bad tactics... the 2 defenders would always rush ahead of the party splitting everyone up, taking craploads of damage, getting surrounded etc. The paladin, is used to playing a fighter and chose sub-optimal powers for his build/attributes... kinda stingy with his Lay on Hands too. They are improving.

I noticed the same thing others have mentioned... the Defenders are getting TOOLED badly in almost every encounter. Things were slightly better when I had the option of having the monsters attacked everybody... but still the presence of a Cleric or Warlord is sorely missed.

So, we are at an impasse.... no one really wants to play a cleric or warlord. I wasn't sure what to do. I am generally not the sort of DM that likes to fudge, but at this rate the PC's will never have any Magic Items ( I allow them to sell the Magic they find at full market value in order to cover the cost of all the frickin resurrections!).

Reading your posts have given me some ideas though... Healing Potions maybe what the answer is... I hafta to do something... the Fighter is seriously getting tired of dying.

So a couple requests for your opinions:

Should I have the Healing Potions as loot/free or make them buy them?
Play the monsters stupider?
Should I not scale the encounters for 6 players, leaving it as is for 5?

Which option would gain the most for balance and fun.

Thanks in advance for your opinions.

PS: I can't believe how "swingy" this version is. Not a complaint, mind you. Just seems way more dependant on dice roles, which has been part of the problem for my group. The guy playing the Fighter and running the Paladin when the original player had to go, failed 6 saving throws in a row to not die when they were both dropped below zero. And the Fighter even had the Human bonus to saves. Hmm thats not swingy, just bad luck I guess.

 

[phil500]

I thinks it's hard to play without any of the 4 roles.

I have run a few sessions of keep- 2 rangers (both do d10+5 with each hit of twin strike) 1 ftr and 1 cler.

they are destroying the keep- the twin strikes are basically broken. If one of the rangers was a wizard, the group would be significantly worse.

My point is, at low levels, controller=minion nuking to a great extent, and between 2 rangers, and a ftr with cleave, the minions arent an issue.

although, they did skip A3, the ftr went down vs. the pets in the burial site, the cler blows both healing words each encounter.

 

[Vayden]

People need to give leaders a chance! Playing the healer doesn't suck like it did in 3.x - I'm playing a tactical warlord in one game right now and it rules. I can mix it up in melee almost as well as our fighter, and I can do all of my buffing and healing simultaneously with laying down the pain. Give it a shot, fellow 4e gamers - wash the bad taste of 3.x cleric out of your mouth and experience the joy of 4e Leader!

 

[Vayden]

I have run a few sessions of keep- 2 rangers (both do d10+5 with each hit of twin strike) 1 ftr and 1 cler.

they are destroying the keep- the twin strikes are basically broken. If one of the rangers was a wizard, the group would be significantly worse.

although, they did skip A3.

Um - you don't get bonus dmg on twin-strike - 1d10, then add your quarry dmg (d6/d8) on one of the hits. Read it again.

 

[keterys]

I really think people should at least try a leader, as has been said. Anyhow, you can totally give out more healing potions (there's more than enough money to just convert into them, they're real cheap), other magic items (Dwarven Armor, Keegan's Sword, Bloodcut Armor, Amulet of False Life, etc), or even just take more drastic measures: give people the ability to 1/enc or 1/day spend a healing surge as a minor action for instance.

 

[kylone]

The 'classic' fudge

I have a Dragonborn paladin, an Elf ranger, a human wizard, and a halfling rogue. Nope, no one wanted to play a leader type. So, what do I do? DM party member of course: human warlord/warlock (fey)--with powers to make everyone else shine.

The whole heal CHA + 1/2 level (and get a save, with a feat) when you spend an action point helps out some, as well.

 

[Blackbrrd]

...
Party has 6 PC's: Wizard, Rogue, Warlock, Ranger, Fighter, and a Paladin.
....
PS: I can't believe how "swingy" this version is. Not a complaint, mind you. Just seems way more dependant on dice roles, which has been part of the problem for my group. The guy playing the Fighter and running the Paladin when the original player had to go, failed 6 saving throws in a row to stabilize when they were both dropped below zero. And the Fighter even had the Human bonus to saves. Hmm thats not swingy, just bad luck I guess.

Failed to stabilize? You need to roll a 20 to stabilize... 6/20 = 30% chance of that happening. You could mention to the other players that they can use the heal skill to get a character to use his second wind... Its a DC 10 heal check I believe.

The fighter and paladin are supposed to get attacked by as many foes as possible if you have a healer... When haven't got a healer you have to rely on hit-and-run tactics to divide the damage among all the characters, or some will go down.

In a party with many strikers I am quite sure that its better to have a warlord than a cleric. You will be enhancing the party's strength instead of trying to boost your parties weak spot.

The warlord giving the whole party +3 to hit with his daily will probably increase the hit rate from something like 50% to 65%, which again will make the fight last 25% shorter on average.

 

[samursus]

Failed to stabilize? You need to roll a 20 to stabilize... 6/20 = 30% chance of that happening.

Oops sorry... meant failed to make any of the "3 strikes you are out" saves, for 2 characters.
Will edit original post..

Also, talked to the group some more, and my brother who plays the Wizard is gonna switch out to a Cleric and see how things go.... if he is able to get it down pat, I will probably allow him to bring back his Wizard and play 2 characters. If only all the damned Strikers weren't so in love with their characters

 

[Slaved]

The whole heal CHA + 1/2 level (and get a save, with a feat) when you spend an action point helps out some, as well.

This is something that I think makes the Warlord really stand out as a Healer. In a Four Combat Day and a Five Member Party this amounts to 3x4x(Charisma Modifier + 1/2 Character Level) potential extra healing and a lot of Extra Saving Throws with a Bonus!

I think that the Extra Hit Points amount to roughly half of a Healing Surge. Giving the Party an extra 6 Healing Surges in Combat without spending an Action to use them is Gold!!!