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Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder overhaul suggestions, pt. 2

Good point. I think you'd have to start with concentration slots being fairly limited, and add a way to increase them where the opportunity cost for a pure-blaster-caster wouldn't be worth it. You could also make an additional concentration slot a perk of specialization in certain schools, although the spell lists have gotten so muddled (esp. Conjuration) that might not work.
The other way would be to nerf blasters who didn't have specific buffs active, which would fill their concentration slots. This, plus a system not entirely unlike Incarnum, are what fuel my S&S variant system which has been delayed until I gauge the reaction to 4e's philosophical choices.

Cheers, -- N
 

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Were I going to do it all over myself, I'd introduce the concept of 'concentration' (ala DAoC -- OMG did I just make an MMO reference?) for spells with a duration longer than 'instantaneous'. Casters got a limited amount of concentration slots, and each spell they had to maintain took up one. So instead of rush-rush-rush through the dungeon, or fight/rest/fight, it became a choice of 'Do I keep up 4 bulls strengths, or drop the one on the ranger so I can summon a monster?'

Non-trivial to get the right number of concentration slots, but do-able. Also makes the higher level mass-effect buffs more useful if they took up fewer of the concentration slots.

I'd mused on this idea myself, and I really like it. There's even the possibility of making spellcasting and metamagic more flexible by allowing the caster to 'boost' a spell by devoting an extra concentration slot to it. Perhaps certain problematic spells (teleport, for one) could require more slots to be devoted to them in order to cast? Could be a way of having a quasi-ritual system - perhaps some spells can only be cast while the casters' mind is untainted by other magics (ie, he's not concentrating an any other spells). This would help nerf buff-scry-teleport, for sure (except in heavily multicaster parties).

And personally I'd make it so that to cast an instantaneous spell, the caster must have an unused concentration slot. Just to give that little extra bit of choice - the option to go full-defensive if necessary or to save your slots for the big (metamagicked?) attack spells.
 

concentration slots?

I'd mused on this idea myself, and I really like it. There's even the possibility of making spellcasting and metamagic more flexible by allowing the caster to 'boost' a spell by devoting an extra concentration slot to it.

I'm sorry, but I'm coming late into this conversation. Concentration slots?
 



I like the idea of the concentration slots a lot, although i must say i have read all 4 pages thus far posted and i like almost all of the discussed ideas.

if concentration were based on say ... max level of spel level = number of concentration slots? perhaps it can be enhanced by Int bonus, though if foxes cunning is used to increase int to get more slots, then that may be a for of abuse.

perhaps it can also be enhanced by a feat? or a new spell, "clarity of mind?" or both?
 


As a basic concentration slot system, how about:

Number of concentration slots = caster level + 3. (As a starting point - I haven't really crunched the maths but I think this may be too generous at high levels. Perhaps 2/3 caster level + 3 might be a bit better)

A spell generally requires a number of concentration slots equal to its level divided by 3: 1st-3rd level spells require 1 slot, 4th-6th level spells require 2, 7th-9th level spells need 3. To cast an instantaneous spell, the caster must have enough empty concentration slots at the time of casting. Increases to spell level due to metamagic etc increase the number of slots required proportionally. So a quickened maximised scorching ray would require 3 slots. Spells that currently have a 'concentration' duration require double the normal slots. Cantrips do not require concentration.

(Alternative: casters get caster level + 3 concentration slots, and spells require level/2 slots to be cast. Again, I'd like to emphasise I haven't done the maths on this one...)

Assigning a concentration slot is a free action performed as an integral part of spellcasting. Reclaiming concentration slots happens automatically once a spell is dismissed, dispelled or has its duration expire.

Some spells are much more demanding, and require more concentration slots. This is a balancing issue, and should be used to shape play. I would personally put teleportation spells into this category. This would nerf buff-scry-teleport tactics to come degree, since the concentration slots required to perform the teleport would limit available buffs. Combat spells that use ridiculously expensive material components as a balancing factor would also be a candidate here (hi, Forcecage...), although we're still stuck with expensive material components in non-combat spells like Raise Dead, since in the situations when these are cast, concentration is less likely to be an issue.

Other uses for concentration slots:
- as a free action, can devote a free concentration slot to give a +2 bonus on dispel checks, either to dispel an enemy's spell or to prevent the dispelling of one of your own.
- as a free action, devote a free concentration slot to give a +2 bonus on Concentration checks to avoid fizzling a spell due to distraction (taking damage mid-casting or environmental conditions etc).
- perhaps some way of using concentration slots for the purposes of counterspelling? Shouldn't steal the thunder of Dispel Magic from the abjuration specialists, but allowing some measure of spontaneous counterspelling from all casters can only help increase the 'mageduel' feel that D&D has never done well. And making counterspelling easier and more accessible can only reduce the power of casters in general, and so improve things for non-casters at high level.

This system would also allow the restructuring of save-or-die spells from their 3.xe swinginess or their Pathfinder just-another-way-of-losing-hit-points-iness. Save or die spells would now come into effect at the end of a duration - perhaps three rounds for the lower level ones (Slay Living), or one for the higher level ones (Implosion, Destruction). The caster has to maintain concentration on the spell for the entirety of this duration, or it has no effect. This gives the target the chance to ward himself against the spell effect somehow, get the hell out of range, kill/distract the caster, compel the caster to drop the spell in order to deal with tactical developments elsewhere, etc, etc. There may be penalties accruing over the course of the spell, or there may not be - depends on the individual spell.

Of course there's scope for all sorts of new feats/spells, just like there is every time you introduce a new subsystem. Feats to get new concentration slots, or let your familar contribute. Debuff spells that tie up a casters concentration slots or make their spells more draining to maintain. Etc etc. Perhaps antimagic could be reworked to make spells *hard* to cast rather than completely impossible? Depending on the caster level of the antimagic effect, all spells could require X more concentration slots than usual, which would mess up low-level casters completely and limit high-level casters to their lesser spells.

General goal here is to limit uberbuffing as a viable tactic, and make casters less nova and more measured (thus making combat last longer and giving non-casters more chance to shine at high levels). Caster can still teleport in and go boom, but he's going to be a fair bit more circumspect since he'll have fewer buffs up, and be a lot more vulnerable if his big metamagicked boom doesn't do the job first time. Also, making counterspelling, dispelling etc a bigger part of the game.

Big area i'm leaving uncovered here is what to do about creatures with spell-like abilities. Do they need concentration slots, if so, how many and how are they balanced? Needs thought...
 
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As a basic concentration slot system, how about:

Number of concentration slots = caster level + 3. (As a starting point - I haven't really crunched the maths but I think this may be too generous at high levels. Perhaps 2/3 caster level + 3 might be a bit better)... edited for content length ...

Big area i'm leaving uncovered here is what to do about creatures with spell-like abilities. Do they need concentration slots, if so, how many and how are they balanced? Needs thought...

i hadn't thought of increasing the number of slots required for higher level spells. That is a really good point.
 


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