Dilettante + Pact Initiate

[Innuit]

Pact initiate says,

"Choose a warlock pact. You gain the pact’s at-will
power as an encounter power, and you can pursue the​

warlock paragon path based on that pact."

So you aren't picking a power, you are picking a pact.

The rule you read was,

"At most levels, you gain access to a new power. You can
take each power only once (you can’t choose the same​

power multiple times)."

Since you pick a power for one of the abilities and a pact for the other (consequently getting the same power) doesn't infringe on any rules I've read. Make sure to reference all applicable sections before you make judgments.

 

[SJay]

That's even cheesier... and not very Paladin-like.

That, I'd veto, and not just roll my eyes.

We're talking 4th ed paladins... if the paladin worships Corellon or Sehanine then it could be very Paladin-like. The paladin is just manifesting characteristics of their deity.

Note by level 11 it would not matter as I fully intend the character to have Eyebite as an at will at this level...

 

[Kesh]

Pact initiate says,

"Choose a warlock pact. You gain the pact’s at-will
power as an encounter power, and you can pursue the​

warlock paragon path based on that pact."

So you aren't picking a power, you are picking a pact.

The rule you read was,

"At most levels, you gain access to a new power. You can
take each power only once (you can’t choose the same​

power multiple times)."

Since you pick a power for one of the abilities and a pact for the other (consequently getting the same power) doesn't infringe on any rules I've read. Make sure to reference all applicable sections before you make judgments.

I'm sorry, but that's just rules-lawyering. By choosing a pact you implicitly are choosing a power. And you did not quote the Dilettante racial feature, which is what I was referring to. You're misrepresenting the rules.

 

[generalhenry]

strict RAW doesn't say anything about it.

But the designer intent is crystal clear.

 

[Innuit]

That is not rules lawyering. That is rules reading. I read the rules, and that is what they say. If you think 2 eyebites is overpowering, then you must think that the warlock class itself is over powered?????

 

[generalhenry]

If you think 2 eyebites is overpowering, then you must think that the warlock class itself is over powered?????

?????
!!!!!!!

no, it's the paladin eyebite combo that's so strong.

 

[Innuit]

Then feel free to house rule it out of your games. As a COer, it's legal and kinda cool to be honest. You can still attack someone you can't see. The rules are in the PHB, page 281 I believe.

 

[generalhenry]

As a COer, it's legal

Yes, it works from a lets try to twist the designers intentions to twink perspective.

But is that really what you want to do?

Sensible DMs say no to hulking hurlers.
---no this is no where near as extreme, it's only slightly overpowered.

It's still the case that where the rules say nothing, it's best to read into the designer intent rather than to let the players pick the most favorable interpretation.


It's not really house ruling. It's DM judging in the face of player rules lawyering.

 

[MwaO]

Yes, it works from a lets try to twist the designers intentions to twink perspective.

Actually, the designers intentions aren't especially clear here due to the following example:
Let's say I take pact initiate(fey) and then decide to paragon multiclass into warlock. This lets me take an at-will. The only at-will I can't take is eyebite(according to the can't take a power twice theory). I can take dire radiance, no problem.

In other words, if I want eyebite at will, I have to take some other one - say Star. That doesn't make a lot of designer sense - if I were a designer, I'd want people to continue in the pact they picked, not choose to mimic another one.

I'm asking CustServ about it - hopefully they'll kick it up to R&D.
(edit: looks like they went straight to escalating according to an email from them)

 

[SJay]

Heh, the answer will be good to know as this will likely end out my first 4th ed character... It will be amusing if I have to shift from Fey to Star Pact Initiate at level 10/11 so I can take Eyebite as my second class at will.

Also I kind of want to be a Half-Elf, but in the end believe I would be stronger just picking Human or Tiefling and only casting it once per encounter till level 11...

By the way, by picking fey pact with the Pact Initiate feat, am I able to use the Fey kickers on spells? For example if I have 12 Int and cast Otherworld Stride would I teleport 5 squares or 6 squares?