The trouble with 365_Bazaar

[Vempyre]

exception based design anybody? If the specific rule says does something the general rule doesn't usually allow, the specific rule wins. So many ppl still think in rigid format about these.

 

[James McMurray]

exception based design anybody? If the specific rule says does something the general rule doesn't usually allow, the specific rule wins. So many ppl still think in rigid format about these.

Type faster next time.

 

[Mort_Q]

4e is an exception based game. Those weapons, and only those weapons, allow you to take specific immediate actions despite the "must be triggered on another turn" clause in the general rule.

I'm assuming they were added to make the item slightly more costly than a typical daily activation on a hit.

exception based design anybody? If the specific rule says does something the general rule doesn't usually allow, the specific rule wins. So many ppl still think in rigid format about these.

Sure...

... but I don't see the benefit of it being an Immediate Reaction versus a Free Action.

If the exception added something, other than confusing people, I might agree.

Again, if they wanted something different, they could easily have worded it differently and, you know, pointed out the exception.

As it stands, it just looks like it's a Cut 'n Paste error.

 

[leotharas]

There would many many better ways to say this in the power description, like having the trigger be hitting with the weapon while making an OA.

I agree the description should be cleared up a bit, but i think piercing weapon should not be a free action in my opinion as impaling someone on a weapon requires the force of there movement too. not so sure about the mind-rending weapon though.

 

[Bagpuss]

Surely if it is exception based design the exception needs to be written, in this case the exception would be "you can take this immediate action during your turn."

There is no exception to the fact immediate actions cannot be take during your turn in the text for either item.


Rod of the Dragon’s Heart suffers from the same problem if the Warlock kills the target.

 

[smallkiwi]

Agreed about exception to the rule. Also the reason to make it an Immediate Reaction is to prevent you from taking other Immediate Reactions: Opportunity Attacks. The point is that you've impaled a baddy and hes on the end of your spear, so it prevents you form taking an OA! Thats why it isn't simply a free action, if it were, you could still make OA's on other targets, which shouldnt be possible when a baddy is stuck to your spear.

 

[James McMurray]

... but I don't see the benefit of it being an Immediate Reaction versus a Free Action.

It's not a benefit. It's a cost. It's adds another decision point when deciding "do I impale this bastard?"

 

[Tale]

Surely if it is exception based design the exception needs to be written, in this case the exception would be "you can take this immediate action during your turn."

There is no exception to the fact immediate actions cannot be take during your turn in the text for either item.

It's a good idea to write out the exception clearly. However, if something is impossible in all situations, then it is reasonable to assume the simplest possible exception that makes it possible in some situations.

 

[Mengu]

As it stands, it just looks like it's a Cut 'n Paste error.

I wonder how many pages of discussion we will have on this Cut 'n Paste error.

 

[Bagpuss]

It's a good idea to write out the exception clearly. However, if something is impossible in all situations, then it is reasonable to assume the simplest possible exception that makes it possible in some situations.

True but it isn't impossible, it is perfectly possible to use this power with an opportunity attack, or if your fighter doing a combat challenge.