How do you calculate XP for evil NPCs?

[Regicide]

Hold on. So a 1st level of 5 Evil NPC party with healing surges and actions points is worth the same XP of 5 Kobold Skirmishes?
Reebo

If they're the same level as the party, party members are going to die, it's likely a 50/50 TPK. If they're lower level than the party they should be able to figure that out quickly, maybe even before combat, and flee/surrender/whatever.

Short answer, DnD doesn't work for fair fights, don't run 5 fully powered NPCs against the party. Run 1 with minions or whatever.

 

[Anthony Jackson]

Now, a fully-built PC style NPC... Well, that'd be a bad idea, IMO.

Aside from the complexity, you're likely to get a very swingy fight, because PC attacks are extremely front loaded, and NPCs, as they don't have multiple encounters per day, don't need to conserve dailies. Thus, initiative becomes critical, and you're likely to see:
Round 1: fire off daily. Action point. Fire off daily.
(note: the round 1 alpha strike doesn't thrill me with PCs either, but it's more problematic with NPCs).

 

[JGulick]

Aside from the complexity, you're likely to get a very swingy fight, because PC attacks are extremely front loaded, and NPCs, as they don't have multiple encounters per day, don't need to conserve dailies. Thus, initiative becomes critical, and you're likely to see:
Round 1: fire off daily. Action point. Fire off daily.
(note: the round 1 alpha strike doesn't thrill me with PCs either, but it's more problematic with NPCs).

Agreed.

NPCs by the book have far fewer Powers, keeping them in line with standard monsters. Monsters with Class levels, meanwhile, stack their Class powers onto the Monster powers, so have the extra array of options familiar to Elites.

On that basis, I might be convinced to say fully-stated NPCs by the PC rules are most probably 'best' included in a combat as Elites... they have the longer power list and the AP. They lack the extra HP, but if they have a Leader on their side, effectively get it from Healing powers. They lack the +2 save, but might get near to that from magic items and/or feats.

Or, rather, that's 2nd best... BEST would be to not use them at all, and use the NPC rules as presented because they give the opponent proper class flavor without adding nearly so much bother and swinginess.

 

[brehobit]

I'd treat them as elites and give 2x EXP. But that's me.

 

[FadedC]

I'd treat them as elites and give 2x EXP. But that's me.

Actually if you go by the DMG rules for creating NPCs with character levels, they are all elites. Though they also end up having considerably more hp and fewer powers then an actual player of that level.

 

[JGulick]

Actually if you go by the DMG rules for creating NPCs with character levels, they are all elites. Though they also end up having considerably more hp and fewer powers then an actual player of that level.

As mentioned above, there are two different NPC building systems. From-scratch NPC per the DMG rules (pp.187-8) and Monster with a Class Template (pp.182-3).

The later are explicitly Elites (or Solo if the template is added to something already Elite), the former do not seem to be (they lack the 2xHP, +2 saves, and AP that typify Elites). The DMG is silent on this, but I don't think treating them as Elites is reasonable. They have punch (esp. in the form of a slightly longer power list than most standard monsters), but lack survivability, IMO.

An NPC built using 100% of the PC rules would lack the 2xHP and +2 saves, but because of the numerous additional Powers (esp. high-power Dailies, which they will freely toss out early), full array of Healing Surges (assuming they have a Leader to enable them after the first), Action Point, and full array of Feats (DMG-style NPCs have only the abstracted "Level Bonus"), I have come around to feeling they are best treated as Elites as well.