Blade Cascade: Much too good...

[Celtavian]

Ok, I've been thinking about Blade Cascade and reading over some of the insane ability synergies that can work with blade cascade to make it do an insane amount of damage with even average rolls. It can way exceed any power in the game.

It appears to be a be a badly worded, exploitable ability.

Here is what I want to do with it. It will still be powerful, but not overpowered as it is now.

1. Maximum number of attacks equal to one quarter your level. This still makes it potentially the most powerful damage dealing attack in the game, but at least puts a cap on attacks.

Even at 15th level when you get it you can do up to 3 attacks at 2 [W] damage plus all enhancements per attack which is a maximum of 6 [W] damage at lvl 15 (easily in line with other abilities). At level thirty that is a maximum of 7 attacks at 2 [W] damage per attack plus enhancements. A possibility of 14 x W damage which is greater than any other attack.

I think this will balance the ability. It is the only broken, poorly worded ability in the game I can find at the moment.

Even with this limitation it gives the potential for more damage than any other attack in the game.

What do you think? Is this a good fix?

 

[ac_noj]

Before I agree or disagree, what's the most overpowered combo you're thinking of?

2. You cannot move between making attacks.

I thought this was the rule anyway? Only an immediate interupt should be able to move you (or let you do anything else) during this sequence of attacks anyway.

 

[Celtavian]

re

Before I agree or disagree, what's the most overpowered combo you're thinking of?

Warlord's favor or some of the warlord hit boost combos. A warlord and ranger timing blade cascade could render an absurd amount of damage possible. Putting a cap in place prevents this while still rendering the ability better than any other in the game.

I thought this was the rule anyway? Only an immediate interupt should be able to move you (or let you do anything else) during this sequence of attacks anyway.

You're right.

 

[Gloombunny]

Capping the number of attacks keeps it from going to wild extremes, but it's still very very powerful when combined with attack-roll buffs, and still crappy when not. The whole "keep attacking until you miss" concept is just... severely problematic, balancewise. Then again, so are multiple attacks in general...

Still, I'd be inclined to replace it with something like "make two primary attacks; for each primary attack that hits, make a secondary attack".

 

[Gloombunny]

It doesn't say you can't move. It just says when your next attack misses. Is there some other rule that my gorup hasn't read that says you can't move and take your Blade Cascade into the next round?

Because the power itself is a standard action? You can't take move actions in the middle of a standard action, and you can't have one standard action stretch over multiple turns. That's... not how actions work.

 

[Celtavian]

Because the power itself is a standard action? You can't take move actions in the middle of a standard action, and you can't have one standard action stretch over multiple turns. That's... not how actions work.

Thanks for the clarification. I should have picked up on that, but was too focused on the text of the power.

I still want to cap the attacks though. Too much potential for abuse. I just don't want to cap it so much that it isn't looked at as a very cool, unique power that a ranger can use to bring a huge amount of pain in a way no other class can.

I think it is balanced at seven attacks maximum. Part of the balance I look at takes into account that once he misses, it's over. Unlike other powers that do their damage with one attack roll and usually do half damage or some other effect on a miss.

So many things can make blade cascade so much better than anything else that it is difficult to adjudicate. Because if he misses on his first attack, the daily is done. Then again if a warlord or another class grants him a stack of attack and damage bonuses on top of feats it could be insane.

 

[Baron Opal]

It doesn't say you can't move. It just says when your next attack misses. Is there some other rule that my gorup hasn't read that says you can't move and take your Blade Cascade into the next round?

You can't utilize a move action until your standard action (the Blade Cascade) is completed. Even if you had an Immediate Interrupt movement ability that triggered when you used a standard action, it would still resolve before you started smacking the BBEG and others withing reach.

Even so, I don't have the rules right in front of me. There may be something that limits the targets to one. That still means that you could concevably shred one poor sot if you get lucky. However there are a number of abilities that trigger when certain bad things happen like being crit or dropping below 0 hp.

 

[Gloombunny]

I think it is balanced at seven attacks maximum. Part of the balance I look at takes into account that once he misses, it's over. Unlike other powers that do their damage with one attack roll and usually do half damage or some other effect on a miss.

The problem is that it's not all that difficult to make it pretty unlikely not to hit all seven times - and when that happens you're look at 14[W] damage plus all static modifiers times seven! Considering that level 29 dailies tend to do 7[W] + attribute...

So many things can make blade cascade so much better than anything else that it is difficult to adjudicate.

QFmf'ingT.

 

[Celtavian]

The problem is that it's not all that difficult to make it pretty unlikely not to hit all seven times - and when that happens you're look at 14[W] damage plus all static modifiers times seven! Considering that level 29 dailies tend to do 7[W] + attribute...

Maybe I'll add in at most four attacks against a single target. That would be a maximum of 4 attacks at 2 [W] damage plus all static modifiers. Which would still be better than any other striker or melee in the game. It might have the same punch as an overall AoE attack might be able to do, but still a very nice ability.

I don't want it to be much better than everything else that power gamers everywhere must have the Warlord/Ranger combo to maximize their group damage. The other level 15 daily is a very nice power that can stun a creature, and I couldn't imagine anyone taking it Blade Cascade is so good.

QFmf'ingT.

I think I get what this means though it'st he first time I've seen it used.

 

[Bayuer]

Look to Seal of Binding - Cleric power. That'a another broken thing. When you use regeneration from demigod it kill solo monster or make them hurt a lot.