4E is unacceptable

Wow, thats how I feel about 4E as well.
Hang on didn't the other half of my post have something on it about writing intelligible useful posts which can be reasoned and debated about ;)

your next post after the above quoted one is a very good try except it seems to be factually incorrect.
 

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People may wish to note that cinderember appears to be the same poster that over on the Pazio boards is claiming that Pathfider will not sell unless they change the name to Dungons and Dragons and allow people to swap their 4E books for Pathfinder ones...

I think the fact that it sold out at Gen Con in 9 hours puts a stake through the heart of that notion.
 
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I think the fact that it sold out at Gen Con in 9 hours puts a stake through the heart of that nation.

Well, based on assorted posts about 4e's sales...

That's meaningless without knowing how many copies they brought. They could have brought less copies in order to sell out quickly and use it for marketing hype.

[Note, I don't think they did this at all, but the irony of some of the same people lauding Pathfinder selling out as were implying wizards deliberately printed low numbers in order to sell out amuses me]

It's great for any company to sell out of a new product at Gen Con, albeit it must be tinged with a sense of 'if only we'd brought more'.
 

1. The RPG market is just too small to support two versions of D&D. One version struggles enough as it is. D&D has had a rocky marketing history. DO you really think you can split it in two and get two viable markets? Be realistic and look at marketing history!

Firstly you have to define what 'viable' is. Pathfinder selling 5k or even 3k of every supplement, every month is very viable in the rpg industry. It might be a fraction of D&D's sales but it would still make it a very healthy company for the industry. If they should get anywhere close to 10k of every supplement then it would be a more than profitable company able to support a number of staff without a problem.

(e.g. 5k copies of a 19.99 supplement, selling solely through the retail channel would generate half a million in sales each year).

2. History also shows that two RPG versions of the same genre eventually succumb to one or the other (sure some may linger, but are they really viable?). Pathfinder already has a large fanbase that grows daily, and it comes from the CORE of an established system. D&D 4e is edging themselves to the fringe, and out of existence.

Call of Cthulhu continues to sell. The company's financial problems are unrelated to the core game and down to a number of other factors. It's a horror game, same genre as White Wolf. For that matter White Wolf supports three core lines and (so far) three limited lines all in the horror genre.

Earthdawn sold very well at the same time as D&D, Earthdawn sales weren't the reason for FASA getting out of the rpg industry. M&M and Champions both enjoy healthy sales, both companies employing several staff and continuing to put out exciting and well designed new products. Both are in the superhero genre.

Could you please quantify how one of, if not the, fastest selling RPG books of all time is edging itself <snip> out of existence?



3. HASBRO wants D&D to make money. If a goodly percentage of previous gamers do NOT go with the new product, don’t you think the axe is in its future? Again, be realistic, HASBRO views D&D as a minor product to begin with (take a look at there board meeting transcripts and you can see whats important to them). DO you HONESTLY think if Pathfinder does well that D&D won’t be axed? It might be axed regardless, but Pathfinder sure is not helping.

Hasbro wants WotC to make money, given how many people have refuted the 'they didn't mention D&D' comment with regard to the board meeting then I'd really expect someone to not be trotting out the same tired old argument.

Pathfinder can do well, Pathfinder can do incredibly well. For your argument to have any logical validity or business sense you would also have to prove that Pathfinder doing well automatically means that D&D will tank.

Given both Pathfinder and D&D seem to be selling very well (albeit with the latter being at a much higher scale), I simply find yout points to be lacking in any merit. WotC is actually increasing their release schedule and adding more products to their lineup. That's a sign of healthy growth.
 

People may wish to note that cinderember appears to be the same poster that over on the Pazio boards is claiming that Pathfider will not sell unless they change the name to Dungons and Dragons and allow people to swap their 4E books for Pathfinder ones...

Forgive the odd stepping in, but what a person does on other forums are their business. and it seems rather rude indeed to bring it into here and try to cause problems with it.
 

Well, based on assorted posts about 4e's sales...

That's meaningless without knowing how many copies they brought. They could have brought less copies in order to sell out quickly and use it for marketing hype.

[Note, I don't think they did this at all, but the irony of some of the same people lauding Pathfinder selling out as were implying wizards deliberately printed low numbers in order to sell out amuses me]

Absolutely true. My first rule about the behavior of all companies is not to take anything they say at face value. That said, I find it more likely that they would have set an optimistic target for their Gen Con sales rather than intentionally shoot themselves in the foot.

It's great for any company to sell out of a new product at Gen Con, albeit it must be tinged with a sense of 'if only we'd brought more'.
They also did say that the Pathfinder beta was going to be a short print run.

Rumor also has it that the Pathfinder campaign setting is either sold out by now or soon to be sold out. Sounds like Paizo is having a great Gen Con.
 

Forgive the odd stepping in, but what a person does on other forums are their business. and it seems rather rude indeed to bring it into here and try to cause problems with it.
Consider yourself forgiven, even if I utterly disagree with your point and your assessment of my motivation.
 


People may wish to note that cinderember appears to be the same poster that over on the Pazio boards is claiming that Pathfider will not sell unless they change the name to Dungons and Dragons and allow people to swap their 4E books for Pathfinder ones...

First, I never said they have to change their name to D&D, I simply suggested that they change the name.

Second, I abandoned the latter concept of a book swap because people seem opposed to that, though it does seem perfectly logical to me. I see lots of companies do similar things and it appears to work well. How was I supposed to know the gaming community has some sort of odd taboo against it?

Last, I said lots of other things, you just slanted a few of the lesser accepted things to make me look bad. That makes you no better than I, my friend.
 


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