[4th]Minotaur(MM) Fighter + Maul = overkill?

[brexor]

I was poking around the MM the other night and saw the Bugbear/Minotaur ability to wield Large weapons...and I got to thinking.
Is it 'legal' to have a race with the "Oversize" ability as a 1st level party member? Am I too concerned with a Large Maul (2d8)? Is cilantro just another form of mint?

 

[Bison]

It doesnt seem all that over powered. on a 1[W] power, your average damage (with no modifiers) goes from 7 to 9.

its a nice boost, but I don't think it is over powered. Its in line with the dwarven weapon training, or eladrin soldier feats. both of which are available to those races at first level as well.

Granted you can have yours stack with weapon focus, but adding damage is easier to get than a bonus to hit, so I would say its perfectly in line with a first level character.

 

[jasonbostwick]

I've got a player using a Bugbear Fighter wielding a Maul as a bodyguard for his Tiefling Artificer in a single-player game.

His average damage doesn't seem any higher than a Ranger using dual Bastard Swords against his quarry, and it hasn't been a problem in our game.

There is no more level adjustment in 4e, so if you're allowing the Monstrous races in a campaign, the Oversize ability is not really any less 'legal' than anything possessed by the other MM races. It might be a little bit on the high-powered side, but there is more to a character than just damage output.

 

[frankthedm]

I was poking around the MM the other night and saw the Bugbear/Minotaur ability to wield Large weapons...and I got to thinking.
Is it 'legal' to have a race with the "Oversize" ability as a 1st level party member? Am I too concerned with a Large Maul (2d8)? Is cilantro just another form of mint?

This is why those are optional for the DM to allow. Unless you want the defenders, possibly leaders, swinging 2d8+mods, don't allow them.

 

[Runestar]

Things will get even more fun when adventurer's vault is released. They can wield large brutal executioners' axes, which works out to 2d6/brutal2. So you roll d6s, and get to reroll any 1s or 2s!!! Mathematically even better than a large maul.

 

[DracoSuave]

It doesnt seem all that over powered. on a 1[W] power, your average damage (with no modifiers) goes from 7 to 9.

its a nice boost, but I don't think it is over powered. Its in line with the dwarven weapon training, or eladrin soldier feats. both of which are available to those races at first level as well.

Granted you can have yours stack with weapon focus, but adding damage is easier to get than a bonus to hit, so I would say its perfectly in line with a first level character.

A race without a feat is not comparable to a race with a feat added.

A better comparison would be comparing Minotaur + a feat to Dwarven weapon training.

That, in turn, turns out to average damage of 1+9 per [w] vs 2+7 per [w]. As soon as the character qualifies for encounter and daily abilities (level 1), the comparison isn't 10 vs 9, it's 19 vs 16, or 28 vs 22.

Not to mention neither of those races are getting a strength bonus, so in -reality- the comparison becomes:
11 vs 9
20 vs 16
29 vs 23



Reality points out that oversized weapons can get -rediculous- quickly, and might not be as 'balanced' as you think... without -actually- looking at the -real- numbers involved.

 

[Stormtower]

I was poking around the MM the other night and saw the Bugbear/Minotaur ability to wield Large weapons...and I got to thinking.
Is it 'legal' to have a race with the "Oversize" ability as a 1st level party member? Am I too concerned with a Large Maul (2d8)? Is cilantro just another form of mint?

All I can say about the Oversize weapon-wielding is "try it and see." If it seems unbalanced, you have the power as DM to disallow it.

Now, cilantro is not actually mint at all. Cilantro leaves are the leaves of the coriander plant, which is ground up in seed form as a popular spice in East Asian and Central/South American cooking. The leaves have a fresh, "soapy" flavor which is slightly reminiscent of parsley. When the plant bolts late in its life cycle, it forms the coriander seeds which soon drop off for harvesting. Cilantro is sometimes known as "Chinese Parsley."

 

[Stogoe]

Things will get even more fun when adventurer's vault is released. They can wield large brutal executioners' axes, which works out to 2d6/brutal2. So you roll d6s, and get to reroll any 1s or 2s!!! Mathematically even better than a large maul.

No it's not. They have the same average - 9. The only difference is the brutal axe has smaller variance (6-12 compared to 2-16).

 

[Saeviomagy]

His average damage doesn't seem any higher than a Ranger using dual Bastard Swords against his quarry, and it hasn't been a problem in our game.

With the way that roles are supposed to play out, this would seem like a problem in and of itself - the fighter is supposed to be a defender. Doing as much damage as a striker while still having all his defender powers would seem to be messing with that. Stuff from the from the WotC optimization boards would seem to confirm that: the highest damage character they've put together so far is a maul wielding minotaur fighter.

That's not to say it has to be a problem with your game - there are groups who manage to make ars magica work, after all.

No it's not. They have the same average - 9. The only difference is the brutal axe has smaller variance (6-12 compared to 2-16).

Especially since the minotaur maul wielder will be using gauntlets of destruction (ie - he can reroll 1s).

 

[blargney the second]

I've got a mino maul fighter, and he's a lot of fun. The strikers both do more damage than him, but he gets some fun defendery tricks.