4E DMG: No guns?!?

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Really? Never? You never had space marines accidentally crash land on your D&D world? You never threw in high tech treasure and reveal at the end of a campaign that the "fantasy world" was really a post apocalyptic earth? You never armed illithid with technobabble arcane instruments because they were fifth dimensional invaders from the dark between the stars?

No, sounds cheesy. I suppose if I had started playing D&D or RPGs when I was still a kid, I might have done that.

But when I wanted some sci-fi D&D, I played Dragonstar. So maybe that's why it never occurred to me.

Though wait... I once included a few outsider constructs that were essentially Cylons. And if I finally get to play a Warforged, he will probably be "Cylonesque", too.

Okay, maybe I'm just wierd, but to me D&D was always wide open and stuff like I listed above was as likely to occur and as "appropriate" as liches, dragons and evil cults.

Really, the realization just made me realize what's missing from E for me: inspiration. I am getting ready to be a player in a 4E game (I like gaming with my friends + they are playing 4E = Reynard plays 4E) and reading through the PHB gave me no inspiration at all for an interesting (and by that i mean outside of tactically interesting) character. The MM is the same way. I have some love for the 4E DMG, actually -- despite the distinct lack of futuristic firearms -- but otherwise the scope and intended play of the game just feels limited.

Anyway - -they should have kept tradiiton alive and put guns -- even matchlocks -- in the DMG.

I honestly don't know how inspiring the 4E core rulebooks are, because I read the Races & Classes and World & Monster books - and they gave me a lot of ideas. I think the core rules do indeed have less fluff then those two books, which is a shame.

 

[Whimsical]

I loved the Dragonstar setting. An excellent mixing of D&D fantasy and sci-fi that was very fun to play in.

My DM used these books heavily when our Forgotten Realms PCs went back a couple of thousand years in time to find that the world was part of a high-tech high-magic interstellar union that was successfully being destroyed by the pharrim. (sp?)

My cleric had nightvision goggles of the eagle, a multiscanner that could also analyze magical auras, and a +5 holy ghost touch automatic rocket launcher. Oh, and a +16 AC from a magically enhanced combat hardsuit didn't suck either.

 

[Reynard]

I think one of the more important concepts for the new books was "lets fit in stuff that we think is needed for beginning a game" instead of "lets fit all stuff in that has been traditionally in the corebooks." Which i heartily approve of.

Well, wether everything in the core books is necessary or the core books have everything that necessary in them is up for debate. But laser blaster aside, "guns in the DMG" was always found in the campaigning section, usually next to oriental weapons, because it was that section of the book that told DMs it was their game and they could run it however they wished. Like I said, there's lots of good stuff in the 4E DMG, but it is very geared toward running a very narrow kind of D&D -- which is, ultimately, the whole problem with 4E for me. I started out thinking "this ain't D&D" but it is D&D; it is just a very specific playstyle of D&D, one I don't much enjoy and they built the entire game around it as a foundation.

Anyway, I think there should be a petition to get guns put in the next printing.

 

[Samuel Leming]

I haven't given it any thought until I saw this thread, but guns would be very easy to add back in to 4e. Making up some Ranger, Rogue & Warlord powers to go along with them would be fun too. Any ideas?

Sam

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Really? Never? You never had space marines accidentally crash land on your D&D world? You never threw in high tech treasure and reveal at the end of a campaign that the "fantasy world" was really a post apocalyptic earth? You never armed illithid with technobabble arcane instruments because they were fifth dimensional invaders from the dark between the stars?

No, and I think most DMs haven't either, nor have most DnD players ever seen that.

I don't think guns in DnD are inspiring. They don't really belong.

 

[Samuel Leming]

No, and I think most DMs haven't either, nor have most DnD players ever seen that.

I don't think guns in DnD are inspiring. They don't really belong.

Well, gonzo D&D has its place. You're right, though, that it's not everybody's kind of thing.

Sam

 

[Reynard]

No, and I think most DMs haven't either, nor have most DnD players ever seen that.

I don't think guns in DnD are inspiring. They don't really belong.

Maybe it's "generational". Early D&D crossed the lines between fantasy and sci-fi constantly.

Wait, I take that back -- it's been happening throughout the editions. 2E saw The Tale of the Comet and 'sheens' were a big hit in 3E if I recall.

 

[Wicht]

No, and I think most DMs haven't either, nor have most DnD players ever seen that.

I don't think guns in DnD are inspiring. They don't really belong.

Wow.

I will admit I haven't done it in a while, but to me Dungeons and Dragons was always an anything goes game (provided the DM wanted it) and it was Mr. Gygax himself who taught me that with Expedition to Barrier Peaks.

So I have had...

Adventurers abducted by aliens in Dungeons and Dragons.
Cowboys attacked by Predator aliens in Boothill.
Crashed spaceships in Dungeons and Dragons (Expedition to Barrier Peaks)
and modern day students catapulted to other dimensions using Dungeons and Dragons as a platform.

 

[Tetsubo]

No, and I think most DMs haven't either, nor have most DnD players ever seen that.

I don't think guns in DnD are inspiring. They don't really belong.

I've been playing D&D since 1978 and I've never run a campaign that *didn't* have firearms in it.

Another reason to avoid 4E.

 

[SkidAce]

No, and I think most DMs haven't either, nor have most DnD players ever seen that.

I don't think guns in DnD are inspiring. They don't really belong.

Never had a campaign that didn't stray like that on occasion. But I agree with the poster above...may be a generational thing.