What other settings should get the FR treatment?

[Mouseferatu]

This.

I feel that major timeline jumps and other means of hitting the reset button are a cheat to the existing fans of the setting. If you can't figure out how to make the setting interesting anymore, or it has become too complicated, or whatever, then it is perfectly acceptable to move the timeline ahead a few years. If that doesn't solve certain problems then retire the setting for a while until fresh inspiration strikes.

Obviously, I strongly disagree, or I wouldn't be interested in the topic.

I think there can come a point where a setting's been milked dry. Not to the point where it's utterly impossible to do anything with it, but at least to the point where everything feels like it's been done, all the major areas are explored.

Yet, if said setting has a lot of cool ideas at its foundation, why throw it all away? Why not do some sort of "partial reset," such as via a major timeline advancement?

I can't at all get behind the argument that it's somehow "unfair" to the fans of that setting. After all, if the line simply ended, they wouldn't be getting new stuff either. This way, there's still new material. Some people will love the new setting, some people will borrow from the new stuff to run the old stuff, and some people will ignore the new stuff and only use the old stuff--but nobody has lost anything that they wouldn't also have lost if the line simply stopped.

Doing this can, when done right, allow a setting to continue to explore the aspects and details at its core, while changing enough that it's exciting and new again. And sometimes, starting a brand new setting isn't the answer, not when an old setting has some of those aforementioned core elements you want to explore. If someone tried, they'd just be accused of "ripping off" Old Setting X, and still wouldn't be able to take advantage of all the specifics.

(I'm speaking hypothetically here. I'm not going to weigh in on whether I think it was time for such a change to FR, at least not in this thread, since--as I said--that's a topic I want to avoid.)

 

[Mouseferatu]

Ari: I hope you are watching this thread for ideas. I'd love to see you get permission from WoTC and update a setting. I know I'd buy it.

Well, I'm certainly reading the thread, but it's mostly just because I'm interested in the topic. There's no way WotC is going to license out a setting just to let someone else make massive changes to it, and I certainly have no idea what WotC's future plans for their own settings might be. I really was just curious what people thought.

I appreciate the thought, though. There are certainly quite a few of WotC's settings that I'd love to work on, if they ever do decide to bring them back--either "as-is," or with a time-jump.

 

[BryonD]

I can't at all get behind the argument that it's somehow "unfair" to the fans of that setting. After all, if the line simply ended, they wouldn't be getting new stuff either.

Yep, they should be glad they got kicked in the teeth, because, HEY!, it is a whole lot better that being stabbed!!!

 

[jdrakeh]

I can't at all get behind the argument that it's somehow "unfair" to the fans of that setting. After all, if the line simply ended, they wouldn't be getting new stuff either. This way, there's still new material. Some people will love the new setting, some people will borrow from the new stuff to run the old stuff, and some people will ignore the new stuff and only use the old stuff--but nobody has lost anything that they wouldn't also have lost if the line simply stopped.

The argument of "Publishing new stuff is unfair to fans of things no longer in print!" is pretty ridiculous — especially when taken at face value. I guess I'd like somebody to explain to me how publishing a new version of a product that has not been getting any support for years (and sometimes decades) suddenly makes using that old product impossible. As far as I know, it doesn't.

As I mentioned earlier, when I play FR, it's from the old AD&D 1e box set exclusively. I still have that box set right here on my desk, despite the publication of three subsequent (and different) reiterrations of FR. It didn't magically burst into flame, WotC didn't come yank it out of my hands, and I can still find people interested in playing it (I ususally bill it as a game of 'historical' FR).

 

[Amphimir Míriel]

As I mentioned earlier, when I play FR, it's from the old AD&D 1e box set exclusively. I still have that box set right here on my desk, despite the publication of three subsequent (and different) reiterrations of FR. It didn't magically burst into flame, WotC didn't come yank it out of my hands, and I can still find people interested in playing it (I ususally bill it as a game of 'historical' FR).

This.

For a while, I used my old grey box Forgotten Realms for my 3.5 D&D games, since I disliked the whole ubiquitous high-level deus-ex-machinas and having to read the novels to keep up with the players...

After that, I got the Kyngdoms OGL campaign setting by Keith Robinson , which felt (to me, anyway), like a "Forgotten Realms lite: all of the flavor, none of the fat" .

I strongly recommend it for people still playing 3.5

 

[Leatherhead]

Fabulous call! There are too many post-apocalypse or post-catastrophe settings. Let's see one that takes place during the big event!

So you mean a normal campaign setting with the heroes in the middle of a plot/event that is meant to take over/destroy the world, except the heroes are forced to fail in their quest?

 

[jdrakeh]

So you mean a normal campaign setting with the heroes in the middle of a plot/event that is meant to take over/destroy the world, except the heroes are forced to fail in their quest?

No, that's not what I meant, but I suspect you know that.

 

[Darrin Drader]

I can't at all get behind the argument that it's somehow "unfair" to the fans of that setting. After all, if the line simply ended, they wouldn't be getting new stuff either. This way, there's still new material. Some people will love the new setting, some people will borrow from the new stuff to run the old stuff, and some people will ignore the new stuff and only use the old stuff--but nobody has lost anything that they wouldn't also have lost if the line simply stopped.

The reason I feel that it's unfair to the fans is because they are normally well invested in the setting. If I have 20 to 50 books that flesh out a setting, I obviously like that setting. When you make a major timeline jump, you significantly reduce the usefulness of that material if you are to adopt the new material. If you decide not to adopt it, then the setting you;ve been following is effectively dead anyway. The people using the old stuff have lost new support products.

Aside from that, specific characters and storylines simply stop because the majority of the people involved are no longer alive. If this jump is precipitated by a major event, then the characters who have struggled heroically in this new setting get to see all of their efforts destroyed by some force that has nothing to do with them.

Doing this can, when done right, allow a setting to continue to explore the aspects and details at its core, while changing enough that it's exciting and new again.

Honestly, I've only seen this work well twice - once with Star Wars and once with Star Trek. In the case of Star Wars, there are a lot of people who find the far future stuff less restrictive than the current stuff. I also think that it works because they didn't end the stories that take place in the other timelines. New Jedi Order became the Legacy of the Force, there are still new stuff from the prequel era coming out, and I think they're still doing occasional rebellion era stories as well. So the bottom line here is that it works because it's not being done to the exclusion of other timelines within the setting.

In Star Trek's case, it worked because they were able to introduce new characters that weren't overshadowed by the old ones within the same timeline (though I would argue that subsequent series within the same timeframe were overshadowed by the older characters from the updated timeline).

Now if you want to argue that a 20 year old setting that got a box set and a handful of supplements can be updated, that could work simply because the material that you're overwriting isn't particularly recent, nor is there a great deal of existing material for it. The only TSR settings that I think that could potentially work well with are Darksun and Birthright.

 

[jdrakeh]

After that, I got the Kyngdoms OGL campaign setting by Keith Robinson , which felt (to me, anyway), like a "Forgotten Realms lite: all of the flavor, none of the fat" .

I strongly recommend it for people still playing 3.5

The Kyngdoms is great and (if I hadn't sold all of my 3.5 books), it's what I'd be playing (with some Murchad's legacy thrown in for good measure).

 

[Greg K]

The only TSR settings that I think that could potentially work well with are Darksun and Birthright.

After seeing what was done to FR for 4e, 3e Darksun (in Dragon Magazine) and Ravenloft (Expedition to Ravenloft), I don't want the inhouse staff at WOTC coming anywhere near Darksun (or Ravenloft for that matter).