sleep and hobgoblin resilience?

[deleteme123456]

But you have a 55% chance of making yourself better.

And how many racial powers out there really leave you worse off? Halfling's second chance has about a 1/20 chance when the monster could critical when it didn't before. Elven accuracy likewise has a 1/20 chance and that's only if your DM uses crit-fail rules (assuming you only use those last two when you were hit or missed, respectively).

Just be sure it works both ways for players and enemies. I don't think it's an unbalanced house rule to allow "bonus saves can't make you worse." Even lets PCs potentially make bonus death saving throws, although short of a wad of modifiers, a 1/20 chance of a good result isn't overwhelming.

 

[SableWyvern]

My biggest problem with "bonus saves can make you worse" is that, under that rule, bonus saves granted for progressive effects don't have any effect on your chances of getting better or worse at all -- they just mean you reach the end state quicker.

After two save attempts, a PC affected by "slowed (save ends), immobilised on failed save (save ends), petrified on failed save" has a 1/5 chance of ending up petrified and a 4/5 chance of ending up perfectly alright. Bonus saves don't affect those numbers unless you ignore the effects of failed bonus saves.

 

[Dausuul]

Yeah, I'm on the side of "bonus saves shouldn't make you worse." It's a house rule, but I think it's a good one.

 

[D'karr]

Yeah, I'm on the side of "bonus saves shouldn't make you worse." It's a house rule, but I think it's a good one.

We've been playing with this "House Rule" since we started playing in early March. The only saves that can make things turn worse for you are the ones that happen at the end of your turn. I have not seen a significant problem as far as game balance goes by doing this.

It would totally suck to have to make a death save, your warlord grants you another chance to make one and all of a sudden you die.

That's why I think that extra saves granted from others should not make it worse for you.

 

[Nifft]

Yeah, I'm on the side of "bonus saves shouldn't make you worse." It's a house rule, but I think it's a good one.

Me, too. One of my few 4e house rules.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Thordain]

does the creature get out of prone once it saves?

what happens once the creature (who was unconcious due to sleep) makes its save? Does it stay prone until it spends a move action to get up, or does it automatically get up at the end of its turn when it makes the save?

 

[D'karr]

what happens once the creature (who was unconcious due to sleep) makes its save? Does it stay prone until it spends a move action to get up, or does it automatically get up at the end of its turn when it makes the save?

Since saves happen at the end of a creatures turn, the creature stays prone until it can act on its next turn.

 

[Syrsuro]

Since saves happen at the end of a creatures turn, the creature stays prone until it can act on its next turn.

Close, but to be precise:

Since saves happen at the end of a creatures turn, the creature stays prone until it can act. (It doesn't have to be on its next turn. If something/someone gives him an action during someone else's turn or if he has a way to rise on a free action he can do it before his next turn).

But it very clearly can't happen following making a save at the end of the turn, because rolling saves is the last thing that happens at the end of the turn.

Carl

 

[~Coxy]

As a matter of fact, this very question came up just this last Sunday for me, with Hobgoblins and Sleep. It's also exacerbated slightly in my campaign because there's a hobgoblon PC as well, so whatever I decided would have more impact than just this fight (the party has no warlord anymore.)

In the end I also decided on the house rule of bonus saves not being able to make the condition worse. Applies to PCs and NPCs equally, and it seems alright so far.