Can you honestly not see the difference between a book series and a campaign line you're supposed to play?
Sept 2nd News - I wont be doing Scales of War
- Thread starter Hawke
- Start date
Can you honestly not see the difference between a book series and a campaign line you're supposed to play?
I even think that players are owed some outline or synopsis, not going into detail, but laying out the general feeling of locations, themes and playstyle, before entering a campaign. The idea that a DM shouldn't know anything about a campaign arc before starting it sounds really weird.
Jan van Leyden
Adventurer
It sounds very much like Mr. Buehler trying to cover up for some other problem - like not enough time or funds for digesting the internal outline and producing one for the public.
While I would understand a statement like: "We would love to do an overview article for players and one for GMs, but we could not keep our schedules for other articles in Dungeon and Dragon, if we would do this. So we can't promise ayou anything along htis lines."
But to call it a knowing decision? We'll, he's reaping what he has sown.
I would stronlgy advise him to take a class in marketing...
While I would understand a statement like: "We would love to do an overview article for players and one for GMs, but we could not keep our schedules for other articles in Dungeon and Dragon, if we would do this. So we can't promise ayou anything along htis lines."
But to call it a knowing decision? We'll, he's reaping what he has sown.
I would stronlgy advise him to take a class in marketing...
WhatGravitas
Explorer
Exactly. It's not only that as a DM having a clue is quite useful, especially with adventures feeling so disconnected like the first two entries...
One of my players enjoys involvement in the story a lot. I daresay that heaps of big reveals are not as enjoyable for him than being part of the story, with ties to the past of his characters. How can I accomodate him?
With this post, Buehler basically means that all D&D players have exactly the same preferences, tugging along the main plot, not being part of the plot. And STAP allowed some ties and early hints, due to the overview. And the only bad thing about STAP is that it can become a bit of a meatgrinder.
Cheers, LT.
It would have been nice for those who do not mind "spoilers" to have the outline. Anyone who didn't want to have "spoilers" could have avoided them.
But apparently, no one at WotC cares anymore for those who do not share their - increasingly narrow - defintion of fun.
frankthedm
First Post
TBH, i kinda think starting a adventure path is kinda a bad idea without having the whole thing. A synopsis is nice, but having the actual material lets the DM adapt more tangents, hints and mysteries to fit the gaming group.
I sort of agree with you.
I don't think starting early is necessarily a bad idea, just that waiting for the whole thing to come out before starting, if you can, is a better idea.
I struggled with some of the early adventures in War of the Burning Sky when the players were asking me questions I simply didn't have the answer to - and that has had a synopsis in the GM's guide from day 1. It would have been a lot worse without one at all.
However, the problem 4th edition players have is that at the moment there is a limited amount of adventures available and, if you particularly want an adventure path, as far as I am aware it is Scales of War or nothing.
Blimey, you kwow it's bad when even Merric says it's weak sauce!
As others have said, Age of Worms had something in the form of the Overload and Dungeon showed the Savage Tide Adventure Path summary before running it. D&D campaigns being what htey are, it's very likely your players will go off-base and you might need to stall a few sessions to get them back on track - a GM really needs to have a rough idea of where the end point of the arc is.
That can be in more general details if they really want to preserve some mystery - for example, "extraplanar battles with a demon lord" or even just "evil outsider invaders using an artifact" is different from saying "Orcus is here, and he's got the Rod of Seven Parts". But, to be honest, I don't think there should be much in the way of surprises for the GM anyway - at the very least, I wouldn't want to find an NPC bumped off several parts ago was actually the grand master of the plot and that there isn't an obvious replacement. Any game in front of active players will end up going into divergences like this, and the GM needs to hav e the safety net of knowing what's worth railroading or fuding over.
Of course, I should add here that I'm more of a single adventure than an adventure path man as far as Dungeon was concerned: I was kinda bummed that Pathfinder was just going to be campaign arcs, although the single GamesMastery adventures made up for it. So perhaps people who have actually ran Savage Tide or the like will have a very different opinion - perhaps it's OK as long as the adventure has appropriate sidebars and comments, or perhaps it's just a case of DM common sense to deal with these situations.
Regardless, though, Wizards answer does seem a bit uncool, and it does make me wonder if there's more to it. I would ahev far preferred if, for example, the issue was time because of trying to get the DDI up and running that they just say so.
As others have said, Age of Worms had something in the form of the Overload and Dungeon showed the Savage Tide Adventure Path summary before running it. D&D campaigns being what htey are, it's very likely your players will go off-base and you might need to stall a few sessions to get them back on track - a GM really needs to have a rough idea of where the end point of the arc is.
That can be in more general details if they really want to preserve some mystery - for example, "extraplanar battles with a demon lord" or even just "evil outsider invaders using an artifact" is different from saying "Orcus is here, and he's got the Rod of Seven Parts". But, to be honest, I don't think there should be much in the way of surprises for the GM anyway - at the very least, I wouldn't want to find an NPC bumped off several parts ago was actually the grand master of the plot and that there isn't an obvious replacement. Any game in front of active players will end up going into divergences like this, and the GM needs to hav e the safety net of knowing what's worth railroading or fuding over.
Of course, I should add here that I'm more of a single adventure than an adventure path man as far as Dungeon was concerned: I was kinda bummed that Pathfinder was just going to be campaign arcs, although the single GamesMastery adventures made up for it. So perhaps people who have actually ran Savage Tide or the like will have a very different opinion - perhaps it's OK as long as the adventure has appropriate sidebars and comments, or perhaps it's just a case of DM common sense to deal with these situations.
Regardless, though, Wizards answer does seem a bit uncool, and it does make me wonder if there's more to it. I would ahev far preferred if, for example, the issue was time because of trying to get the DDI up and running that they just say so.
Reaper Steve
Explorer
I don't see how argument is any weaker than the 'must know it all right now' argument. You don't need anything more than what you have right now. You don't need the entire metaplot to run each scenario. You don't have to plan anything out... you finish one and move on to the next. I thought 'Bordrin's Watch' gave me enough to flow from one to the next. What happens in this month's installment? No idea, but I don't need one right now. Scenario 3 will tell me how to start where #2 left off.
If you (generic 'you') can't run the game that way, then maybe you should really wait another 16 months until you have them all and can read them all.
If you (generic 'you') can't run the game that way, then maybe you should really wait another 16 months until you have them all and can read them all.
If one doesn't need the metaplot to run each adventure, then it wasn't much of a metaplot to begin with, or one had to run it by the letter, and not dare customise it even a bit, nor allow much changes by player actions.
Similar Threads
