What would you have done?

[Khime]

Don't have the books with me, so, off the top of my head:
Disarm /encounter
Trip 1/encounter
Tumble 1/encounter
Use healing items to regain hp (when out of surges) N/A
Use two magic rings before X level

..........and there are many more. A DM is free to ignore as many of these as he pleases of course but they are the RAW.

Disarm - My PHB doesn't include "this is the only way you can remove a target's weapon" in the description of exorcism of steel. In fact, since there's no explicit rule about how you disarm opponents, both the player and GM have free reign to come up with what they want. Heck, I could use Intimidation and say I'm forcing them to drop their weapon via steel-edged persuation. No restriction.

Trip - There are oodles of powers that knock the target prone, and again, none of them say "this is the only way you can knock a target prone or otherwise trip him." No restriction.

Tumble - There are oddles of powers that allow you to shift more than one square, all of which you're free to describe as 'tumbling' - remember, you're free to re-write the 'flavor text' of any power. No restriction.

As for the rest... let's be honest. You're picking at specific options with limitations on their use and saying this is somehow a restriction on being able to do general things. You are not restricted from healing yourself or otherwise gaining hit points; there are rather specific resources you use up, and you then have to use *gasp* other options! There is a limitation on magic item uses, but there is no limit on the ways you can do whatever it was you were trying to do with the magic item in the first place. A 'wand of fireball' may only be usable once a day, but that doesn't mean you are suddenly "restricted" from dealing damage at range, or from setting things on fire. You only have one specific option removed.

If you see that as a "restriction," then no game with any kind of rules will work for you, since the whole point of a rule system is to provide a framework within which you play.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Assuming your objection isn't the "per encounter/per day" system:

It is per encounter thing that I have issues with. Daily powers are fine (although any power so restricted is magical/supernatural).

The problem with per encounter abilities is that an "encounter" is a subjective thing. 1/day is a finite resource. 1/encounter is BS restriction that throws game mechanics in your face constantly.

Use healing to regain hp when out of surges: It's a resource based game. What can I tell you?

Its always been a resource based game. Limited resources are a part of playing. The problem here is that the resource management is so artificial.

In older editions (pre 3E dime store wands) clerics could run out of spells and scrolls, potions got used up and the PC's might not have access to magical healing as a result.

In 4E a guy could be running around with a backpack full of healing pots and be unable to use them That reminds me of some horrible curse like someone dying of thirst and no amount of water bringing relief.

 

[LostSoul]

It is per encounter thing that I have issues with. Daily powers are fine (although any power so restricted is magical/supernatural).

The problem with per encounter abilities is that an "encounter" is a subjective thing. 1/day is a finite resource. 1/encounter is BS restriction that throws game mechanics in your face constantly.

That's not an issue of restrictions on what your character can do; it's an objection to being able to immerse yourself into your character. (I can immerse myself into my character even with encounter and daily powers; I'm just lucky that way, I guess.)

I was going to reply to the rest of the post, but that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about restrictions and YOU CAN'T in the game, none of which the per encounter/per day system does to you.

 

[ExploderWizard]

If you see that as a "restriction," then no game with any kind of rules will work for you, since the whole point of a rule system is to provide a framework within which you play.

Thats not entirely true. Basic D&D does just fine at providing a framework without over 900 pages of rules. See my post above this one for my thoughts on healing.

I think 4E could bring a tremendous freeform game if you kept the DMG and tossed out 80% or so of the PHB. My biggest issue with 4E is one of page count bloat. If the game has so few restrictions on what you can do why detail the things you CAN do in such a large volume? $$ of course.

 

[OSD]

This have gone from "what would you have done?" to "what's wrong with 4e" and from the sound of it, a mini-edition war (prepare to fire the gnomes at the unbelievers! xD)

Back on topic, I think the question about "what would you have done?" to "what would you have done as DM?" since it seems like the DM didn't offer any advice. At this point in time, it might be a good idea to pause the game and have a little discussion to flesh out some options since not everyone's familiar with the rules.

 

[Khime]

In 4E a guy could be running around with a backpack full of healing pots and be unable to use them That reminds me of some horrible curse like someone dying of thirst and no amount of water bringing relief.

I have this same problem with caffeine. When I drink something with caffeine, it "magically" makes me awake by drawing on my body's reserves in an artificial way. However, at some point, no amount of caffeine will be able to keep me awake, no matter how many of those healing poti... er, cups of coffee I drink, and I'll have to take an exte... er, sleep for a while before the coffee will be effective again.

How unrealistic.

 

[Ravingdork]

When you have a series of options for stuff you are allowed to do, the more options there are, the less people can think outside the available list of options. They begin to believe, fallaciously, that whatever is not on that list of options is the entirety of what they can do. They feel they need to be told they have permission before they do it.

This is, of course, wrong thinking.

I've seen this...a LOT.

 

[Syrsuro]

This ambush is specifically set up to show how limiting and restrictive the rules really are. Many logical, heroic, risky, and just darned fun solutions are thrown out because of two little words that sum up what 4E (and 3E to some extent) are all about: YOU CAN'T.

Player1: "I wanna try and leap through this corner to get by. I have 18 DEX and am trained in acrobatics."

DM: " You can't"

Player 2: " I wanna plow through the ooze with a mighty rush and try and bodysplash that rat back there. I have a 20 STR and I am trained in athletics "

DM: "You can't"

Give me Basic D&D for this scenario and there suddenly become a TON of options because the rules don't go to great lengths to stifle creativity and imagination.

For 3.x, you are absolutly correct. It attempted to cast every single potential action as a rule and if there wasn't a rule for it you couldn't do it.

For 4E you are equally incorrect.

4E is in this way a return to the older school gaming in that the DM is given the tools to allow the players to play 'outside the box' if they wish.

Or is page 42 missing from your DMG?

"You make it possible for the players to try anything they can imagine.
That means it’s your job to resolve unusual actions when the players​

try them."

The character wants to grab onto the corner and swing his way around - Sounds like an acrobatic stunt, difficult, but possible.

You want to plow through the ooze?
Sounds painful, but possible.

DMs don't just blindly apply rules, DMs apply rulings based upon the rules and the combined imaginations of the players and the DM.

Carl

 

[Staffan]

It is per encounter thing that I have issues with. Daily powers are fine (although any power so restricted is magical/supernatural).

The problem with per encounter abilities is that an "encounter" is a subjective thing.

Have you even read the 4e rules? I doubt it because of this post, as well as the mention of not being able to use 2 rings before a certain level (which was mentioned in one of the previews, but isn't in the actual game - all rings are at least paragon-level items though, so you probably won't be seeing them at lower levels, just like you won't be seeing +3 weapons).

But as for encounter abilities, the restriction is not subjective at all. An ability being "per encounter" means it recharges with a "short rest", which in turn means 5 minutes of mostly non-activity.

 

[Goonalan]

Try something... Try Anything.

In this encounter I split the ooze again and again, from 1 to 2, to 4, to 8, to 16 tiny oozes, my players loved it- particularly at the end when they were chasing a myriad tiny oozes slurping there way around the chamber trying to get away from the adventurers scurrying after them in the dark. Yeah, I read it wrong, and I was still stuck in a 3.x frame of mind, also I'd made lots of purty Tokens on MapTools and I was gonna use them regardless.

My players were similarly trapped in at the start of the encounter, not to the same extent as the original poster, Ochre Jelly at the front splitting like crazy, rats at the rear nipping at their heals- result fire and sword on the rats, shield wall to the front- worked like a charm, the bastards.

There's no restrictions on D&D, at least none that I've found so far, pages of rules which at a moments notice, and after a short discussion between players and DM, can be abandoned, substituted or otherwise affected with glee. Am I the only DM that has a bunch of players that don't generally read the rules anyway and respond to situations by simply describing what they want to do, and uncaring of the skills/powers they will have to call on.

Player 1- I run at the Ooze, screaming and swinging, plunge through it to the other side, and then holler for my companions to exit via the hole I just left in the flacid amoeboid scum... now git my dice.

DM- Continues to grin insanely and make it up as he goes along, with side-long glances at the "rules" every now and then to reassure himself.

The fact that player 1 fails in his attempt serves not as a warning but rather as the prologue to the next players equally insane offering.

The transition from 1e to 2e to 3e to 4e hasn't stopped my players from trying anything, they're action heroes, and don't generally hold with book learnin'.

Try anything you want- get a 20 and you can make it up as you go along, as long as it's entertaining and the story goes on...