What would you have done?

[Hypersmurf]

I think the key is: the DMG is for the DM, the PHB for the players. The player shouldn't assume that he can change the rules. But the DM can have this power, and the responsibility. I suppose they should have stressed more that the DM and the players have to talk with each other.

Sometimes, the DM may only need to have an explicit talk with one player.

He might tell the table "This is a game of high adventure and cinematic action", but that could mean all sorts of things.

But if he's talked in more detail with one player about the sort of stunts he wants to encourage, that player can lead by example. If, in the first combat, that player says "I step onto the bannister and leap for the chandelier, sliding down the support rope with one hand while pulling my battleaxe free with the other, and deliver a smashing blow to the goblin leader as I land on the ground floor... whirling in place, I draw the shortsword with my off-hand and ram it into the shaman beside him..."

... it might just be another way of saying "I take a move action to jump off the staircase and move to this square, a free action to draw my weapons with the Quick Draw feat, and a standard action to use Twin Strike". But it also gives the DM a chance to say "Okay - give me an Acrobatics check. If you make a DC 20, you'll have Combat Advantage and you can Push the leader 1 square, if you like."

And whether the DM gives a 'style bonus' or not, when he says "Cool - give me a roll!", it lets the other players see that count-squares-and-use-Power-number-7 is not all they're limited to at this DM's table.

-Hyp.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Or is page 42 missing from your DMG?

Sigh....................why don't they look? If you will notice in an earlier post I clearly recognized what was in the DMG, and how at-odds it was with what was in the PHB. These two volumes instead of complimenting one another, are kind of at odds. Yeah of course the DM is free to say "sure you can attempt that" at anytime.

DMs don't just blindly apply rules, DMs apply rulings based upon the rules and the combined imaginations of the players and the DM.

Very well spoken and I agree with you 100% I further believe that if this is indeed the case then there is no need to kill so many trees for a rulebook.

 

[GoLu]

1. The DM doing it isn't "blatant cheating."

That's a separate discussion, and you may find as many different opinions as people responding to this topic. However, that aside, it sounds like this decision may have been responsible for (or at least strongly contributed to) the TPK since it significantly raised the offensive output of the slimes. Cheating or not, it's worth considering whether it was a good idea.

(And if you and your players had fun, the answer is probably yes. If the players are now feeling cheated--whether or not you think they have any right to be--the answer could potentially be no.)

 

[ExploderWizard]

Have you even read the 4e rules? I doubt it because of this post, as well as the mention of not being able to use 2 rings before a certain level (which was mentioned in one of the previews, but isn't in the actual game - all rings are at least paragon-level items though, so you probably won't be seeing them at lower levels, just like you won't be seeing +3 weapons).

Ok so no rings before level 11 or so. Is that any better?

But as for encounter abilities, the restriction is not subjective at all. An ability being "per encounter" means it recharges with a "short rest", which in turn means 5 minutes of mostly non-activity.

I know how short rest mechanics work and I never said that encounter powers were in any way unbalanced, overpowered, ect. Its not the restriction itself which is subjective but the unit of measurement. Daily powers are measured by an objective unit, the day. You can use this power X number of times per day. Powers based on a per encounter recharge feel very artificial and gamist but are not really broken in a purely mechanical sense. Its just a flavor thing much like the glass ceiling on healing. Healing has always been a resource to manage but the surge cap buts arbitrary limits on what even the gods in a campaign world can accomplish (without altering the RAW) or the DM from inserting additional healing capacity at the right moment (likewise). Yeah you can page 42 any this away if you like but then we are back to the question of why its there in the first place.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Healing has always been a resource to manage but the surge cap buts arbitrary limits on what even the gods in a campaign world can accomplish (without altering the RAW) or the DM from inserting additional healing capacity at the right moment (likewise).

Actually, that is not true. There are powers that allow you to heal regardless of number of healing surges (and sometimes even value). Cure Light Wounds for example. (2nd level Daily Utility, allows you heal hit points as if you spend a healing surge.) There's also a Warlord attack that does this (but I don't remember the name off-hand).

For game balance reasons of course these won't be hand out these powers as at-wills or encounters (unless further restrictions apply), but the rules do not tell you that is impossible to heal outside the healing surge framework and in fact provide examples for that.

 

[GoLu]

Healing has always been a resource to manage but the surge cap buts arbitrary limits on what even the gods in a campaign world can accomplish (without altering the RAW) or the DM from inserting additional healing capacity at the right moment (likewise). Yeah you can page 42 any this away if you like but then we are back to the question of why its there in the first place.

Not all healing requires healing surges. Consider the second level cleric utility, Cure Light Wounds. If low level clerics can work around it, I figure gods can probably figure something out.

(edit: And.... beaten to the punch by a good five minutes. I get distracted while typing sometimes.)

 

[ExploderWizard]

Not all healing requires healing surges. Consider the second level cleric utility, Cure Light Wounds. If low level clerics can work around it, I figure gods can probably figure something out.

(edit: And.... beaten to the punch by a good five minutes. I get distracted while typing sometimes.)

Quite true but this also comes from a pool of character power, in fact the example is a daily power. I am referring to sources "outside the box" of the alotted pool such as discovering potions or scrolls.

 

[Wolfwood2]

Quite true but this also comes from a pool of character power, in fact the example is a daily power. I am referring to sources "outside the box" of the alotted pool such as discovering potions or scrolls.

If you are at negative hitpoints and out of healing surges, a healing effect that would otherwise require you to spend a surge will bring you to 1 hitpoint. This means that a downed character can always benefit from having a healing potion poured down their throat, even if they are all out of healing surges.

However, you won't be anywhere near your optimum fighting form and won't have any "hitpoint mojo" to ward off serious damage. Sounds reasonable to me.

 

[Cadfan]

That's a separate discussion, and you may find as many different opinions as people responding to this topic. However, that aside, it sounds like this decision may have been responsible for (or at least strongly contributed to) the TPK since it significantly raised the offensive output of the slimes. Cheating or not, it's worth considering whether it was a good idea.

(And if you and your players had fun, the answer is probably yes. If the players are now feeling cheated--whether or not you think they have any right to be--the answer could potentially be no.)

1. The person I was responding to when I said that was criticizing me, and accusing me of cheating, because I had the jelly split multiple times. My players didn't suffer a TPK. In fact, they won without major hit point loss. I extended the jelly's life span because the players were having a good time fighting it, and I didn't want the fight to end while it still had so much fun left in it.

2. The OP, who did suffer a TPK, didn't have the jelly split extra times. He appears to have run the jelly exactly as it is written in the module.

 

[Ravingdork]

If you are at negative hitpoints and out of healing surges, a healing effect that would otherwise require you to spend a surge will bring you to 1 hitpoint. This means that a downed character can always benefit from having a healing potion poured down their throat, even if they are all out of healing surges.

Where does it say that? I read the passage once long ago, lost it, and since then have seen in SEVERAL places where it says, "if you don't have any healing surges available, your condition does not change."