JeffB
Legend
Have you looked at Glorantha (the world) and Hero Wars/Hero Quest (game designed around Glorantha)?
Glorantha linkage
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NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.
To RP Game Players/Gamemasters -- What is Fun? What is Unfun?
- Thread starter Wyrmshadows
- Start date
Have you looked at Glorantha (the world) and Hero Wars/Hero Quest (game designed around Glorantha)?
Glorantha linkage
Emirikol
Adventurer
fun and unfun AS A GAMEMASTER/DM
Since this post is directed to DM's, I'm your man to answer this one. I NEVER play, I only DM. Anyways, here it is (and it's directed towards the only game I run...D&D):
Fun:
* When the players interact on our discussion group and mention things about the last game
* When the scenario is in an easy-to play format, but has depth and background
* When the rules don't get in the way of creativity
* When my players laugh
* When my players all exclaim at once at a really crucial action or roll by a player
Unfun
* Autistic, moron, RPGA gamers..the few..the proud. There was one at every table..and don't have the patience for that anymore.
* The feeling that the new rules are inflexible and when that feeling translates into players doing the same thing every combat rather than using their noggins.
* When players come to the game high or get too drunk and don't contribute but THINK they are.
* DMig when tired.
jh
Since this post is directed to DM's, I'm your man to answer this one. I NEVER play, I only DM. Anyways, here it is (and it's directed towards the only game I run...D&D):
Fun:
* When the players interact on our discussion group and mention things about the last game
* When the scenario is in an easy-to play format, but has depth and background
* When the rules don't get in the way of creativity
* When my players laugh
* When my players all exclaim at once at a really crucial action or roll by a player
Unfun
* Autistic, moron, RPGA gamers..the few..the proud. There was one at every table..and don't have the patience for that anymore.
* The feeling that the new rules are inflexible and when that feeling translates into players doing the same thing every combat rather than using their noggins.
* When players come to the game high or get too drunk and don't contribute but THINK they are.
* DMig when tired.
jh
Silvercat Moonpaw
Adventurer
It's intriguing, but the site is hard to navigate, and the setting books are too expensive for my tastes at the moment. It's a good idea, though.
Psion
Adventurer
FUN
The feeling that any PC could die in a tense conflict.
UNFUN
The knowledge that
1) Someone will die.
2) No one will die.
FUN
Randomization that shakes players up a bit and frees the system from having to have so many niggly barriers from minmaxing
UNFUN
Randomization that sticks half the players with sucky characters
No randomization in chargen, and all the disadvantages that come with it.
FUN
A system that evokes the reality of the setting
UNFUN
A system that ignores the setting
A system that dwells on aspects of the setting that nobody cares about except on the internet.
FUN
Fighting the good fight. Tangible moral reality. Good vs. Evil.
UNFUN
PCs as a group of amoral mercenaries.
FUN
When the players are relaxed enough that humor comes out in play.
UNFUN
When the game is a joke.
FUN
Robust systems that handle a wide variety of situations consistently with minimal effort.
UNFUN
Rules light systems that pretend to "handle it all" but really are just a facilitation for GM fiat.
Rules heavy system that waste player time on details nobody cares about.
FUN
Balance by role, party needs. Teamwork driven, "we may not all be the same, but we are all needed."
UNFUN
All options are essentially equal.
FUN
Magic is powerful enough to be a plot driving device, but elusive enough that it's not used an excuse for every day happenings.
UNFUN
Magic is either a commodity or extreme scarcity.
FUN
As characters become more powerful, they take on greater challenges with bigger consequences.
UNFUN
As characters become more powerful, they face the same threats with bigger numbers.
FUN
A with roles that are a reflection of the action, and that helps guide characters to functional characters, and provide a degree of flexibility.
UNFUN
Systems that promise to let you build anything, but really the rules twinks will make abusive characters and those not familiar with the rules will make tepid, and those with little sense of the setting will make inappropriate characters.
The class mill.
Inflexible classes; systems with too little room to vary your concept.
FUN
Systems that model reality close enough that, within the setting's tolerances for the unreal, has you saying "I could see this happening."
UNFUN
Systems that "break the fourth wall" from excessive laxness in modeling.
Systems that waste time on details that nobody will notice.
FUN
Systems where the resolution system is a means, not an end.
UNFUN
Systems that pull you out of the game into a different game when it's time to resolve something.
FUN
Systems that balance and design around the multiple possible activities. (i.e., has a robust skill system.)
UNFUN
Systems that pick one thing (say, combat), and makes all other activities afterthoughts. (No, not saying 3e was exemplary here...)
The feeling that any PC could die in a tense conflict.
UNFUN
The knowledge that
1) Someone will die.
2) No one will die.
FUN
Randomization that shakes players up a bit and frees the system from having to have so many niggly barriers from minmaxing
UNFUN
Randomization that sticks half the players with sucky characters
No randomization in chargen, and all the disadvantages that come with it.
FUN
A system that evokes the reality of the setting
UNFUN
A system that ignores the setting
A system that dwells on aspects of the setting that nobody cares about except on the internet.
FUN
Fighting the good fight. Tangible moral reality. Good vs. Evil.
UNFUN
PCs as a group of amoral mercenaries.
FUN
When the players are relaxed enough that humor comes out in play.
UNFUN
When the game is a joke.
FUN
Robust systems that handle a wide variety of situations consistently with minimal effort.
UNFUN
Rules light systems that pretend to "handle it all" but really are just a facilitation for GM fiat.
Rules heavy system that waste player time on details nobody cares about.
FUN
Balance by role, party needs. Teamwork driven, "we may not all be the same, but we are all needed."
UNFUN
All options are essentially equal.
FUN
Magic is powerful enough to be a plot driving device, but elusive enough that it's not used an excuse for every day happenings.
UNFUN
Magic is either a commodity or extreme scarcity.
FUN
As characters become more powerful, they take on greater challenges with bigger consequences.
UNFUN
As characters become more powerful, they face the same threats with bigger numbers.
FUN
A with roles that are a reflection of the action, and that helps guide characters to functional characters, and provide a degree of flexibility.
UNFUN
Systems that promise to let you build anything, but really the rules twinks will make abusive characters and those not familiar with the rules will make tepid, and those with little sense of the setting will make inappropriate characters.
The class mill.
Inflexible classes; systems with too little room to vary your concept.
FUN
Systems that model reality close enough that, within the setting's tolerances for the unreal, has you saying "I could see this happening."
UNFUN
Systems that "break the fourth wall" from excessive laxness in modeling.
Systems that waste time on details that nobody will notice.
FUN
Systems where the resolution system is a means, not an end.
UNFUN
Systems that pull you out of the game into a different game when it's time to resolve something.
FUN
Systems that balance and design around the multiple possible activities. (i.e., has a robust skill system.)
UNFUN
Systems that pick one thing (say, combat), and makes all other activities afterthoughts. (No, not saying 3e was exemplary here...)
Herremann the Wise
First Post
Very well put sir. I cannot think of a word here I disagree with.
For me, I love certain fantasy books: Martin, Feist, Vance, Leiber, Tolkien and so on. I love the worlds and story they encapsulate. Fun for me is playing in a campaign world that could fit in amongst their fine work. Unfun is playing in a campaign that just doesn't mesh with the above.
Best Regards
Herremann the Wise
Gort
Explorer
Oh, I don't know. In the "evil campaign" I played in for about three years, we really ended up playing more of an "unaligned campaign". We stuck together (for the most part), and the main differences between our party and the standard party of good guys was that we required a real motivation to do things, we weren't afraid to use "unsavoury" means to gain power and achieve our objectives - we had a player necromancer for a while, my character was a thrall to a devil.
That said, we weren't really all that evil. We didn't set out to ruin people's lives unnecessarily, even if our main goals usually turned out to be conquest and tyranny.
I think the thing to avoid in an evil campaign is "obnoxious evil", like you have the choice to be in most computer RPGs. Where the character is just nasty to everyone around him for no good reason at all. For instance, in Knights of the Old Republic, there's a point where you're dealing with a tribe of primitives. Their village elder knows of a promised land he's trying to get the tribe to where they can all live together in peace and harmony. You follow the clues, and come up with a map to the promised land. The local shopkeeper is fleecing the villagers for supplies, and offers you 100 credits (a pitiful sum) to burn the map. The evil choice is to do it. This is "obnoxious evil". You're just being horrible for no reason at all. I'd far rather laugh in his face, show the map to the village elder, then tell everyone I knew that the shopkeeper asked me to burn the map for his own gain. Then I'd watch him reap what he sowed. Far better, and less obnoxious.
So, I'd say an amoral mercenary campaign can be fun, cause I've played in one. It was a very liberating way to play, and probably the best campaign I've been in so far.
Silvercat Moonpaw
Adventurer
Sticking a player with a character based upon something they can't control is pretty sucky.
Psion
Adventurer
Oh, I'm absolutely certain I don't find amoral mercenary games fun anymore.
Seriously, this particular couplet was meant in the positive/enabling sense. If a game can do amoral mercenary games, that's no biggie, so long as I can do something else.
What I was more about there is the fact that I like campaigning wherein there is a moral right to the cosmos, and the players must struggle against corruption and darkness. Having that palpable moral reality is an aspect of a game I enjoy. That's an aspect I found some folks way too eager to do away with.
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Psion
Adventurer
