Sword and Sorcery Saga v. 1.02 and NEW Adventure Conversion!

[pukunui]

Just wanted to jump in and say that I really like what you've put together here, Gneech. As much as I've been pro-4e more or less since its announcement, and while it is mostly a vast improvement over 3.5, I'm finding that it's still just not quite what I want ...

However, one of the other guys is running a SWSE game, and I'm absolutely loving it. For all the talk of streamlining the D&D rules with 4e and all that, I think that SWSE is, with a few exceptions, far more streamlined and elegant a system than 4e. I vastly prefer the talent-based system to the powers-based system.

So more and more I keep thinking that it would be quite fun to use SWSE as the basis for a fantasy game. There are some things in your conversion that I'm not sure I like or would want to use, but there's a lot there that I really like a lot (and I'm eagerly awaiting version 2.0 as I suspect it may be even more to my liking than your version 1.02 -- any idea when you'll have 2.0 finished?).

I don't know if my group would go for it though. They seem to like 4e. I've asked if anyone would be interested in playing SWSE as a fantasy game, though, so we'll see what they say.


Cheers,
Jonathan

 

[The_Gneech]

Thanks! FWIW, I'm working on a 3.5-to-Saga conversion currently, so if your group prefers something closer to standard D&D, that might suit them well.

-The Gneech

 

[pukunui]

Thanks! FWIW, I'm working on a 3.5-to-Saga conversion currently, so if your group prefers something closer to standard D&D, that might suit them well.

-The Gneech

Thanks but no thanks. 3.5 was not our cup of tea.

I'd prefer a straight Saga to "fantasy" conversion (like what you've already done) but with the "best of 4e" thrown in.

My only real concern with using Saga rules for fantasy is that you can't do the heavily-armored warrior trope very well -- at least not at high levels. I wonder how difficult it would be to graft AC back onto the Saga rules ...

What I'm actually thinking of at this point is using the Saga rules for PCs but continue to use the 4e monsters and such. I really like 4e from a DM's point of view. Pretty much the only two things I don't like about 4e are the class structure (talents are so much better than powers) and the plethora of dissociated mechanics.

 

[The_Gneech]

My only real concern with using Saga rules for fantasy is that you can't do the heavily-armored warrior trope very well -- at least not at high levels. I wonder how difficult it would be to graft AC back onto the Saga rules ...

Actually, the warrior (soldier) class can really tank up w/ armor. Check out the armor mastery talent tree.

What I'm actually thinking of at this point is using the Saga rules for PCs but continue to use the 4e monsters and such. I really like 4e from a DM's point of view. Pretty much the only two things I don't like about 4e are the class structure (talents are so much better than powers) and the plethora of dissociated mechanics.

You'll have to watch out for wonky math, there ... 4E progression is based on everything being 1/2 level, while SWSE is based more on 3/4-level-with-variations. I've no doubt it can be done, you'll just have to keep your eyes open.

My "XP Budget for Saga Edition" document (on the S&S Saga site) includes my best whack at some of the "page 42"-style rules, so you might look into that as a starting point. I'm working on a system for building creatures and monsters, which will also have some info. It doesn't use exactly the 4E model, but it is greatly simplified over 3E.

-TG

 

[pukunui]

Actually, the warrior (soldier) class can really tank up w/ armor. Check out the armor mastery talent tree.

You're right. I was forgetting about that (not having played a soldier in SWSE yet).

You'll have to watch out for wonky math, there ... 4E progression is based on everything being 1/2 level, while SWSE is based more on 3/4-level-with-variations. I've no doubt it can be done, you'll just have to keep your eyes open.

Hmm. And, of course, the other thing is that SWSE is still based on 20 levels, while 4e went to 30. I wonder if it would work to simply tack on another 10 levels of talent/feat/talent/feat/etc?

My "XP Budget for Saga Edition" document (on the S&S Saga site) includes my best whack at some of the "page 42"-style rules, so you might look into that as a starting point. I'm working on a system for building creatures and monsters, which will also have some info. It doesn't use exactly the 4E model, but it is greatly simplified over 3E.

Will do.

I'm also going to check out that "Fantasy Concepts" pdf at some point.

So is your S&S Saga 2.0 on hold now (since you said you're doing a 3.5 conversion)?

 

[The_Gneech]

So is your S&S Saga 2.0 on hold now (since you said you're doing a 3.5 conversion)?

No, I'm basically working on them concurrently, as lessons learned from one are going into the other and vice-versa. Really, they're not that different from each other -- it's just a matter of classes and spells.

-The Gneech

 

[pukunui]

No, I'm basically working on them concurrently, as lessons learned from one are going into the other and vice-versa. Really, they're not that different from each other -- it's just a matter of classes and spells.

-The Gneech

Oh ok. Cool. How's it coming?

 

[The_Gneech]

Well, there are three major items on my "Saga-ized gaming" plate right now:

The Monster Book
This is basically written; it needs to be laid out and be given another pass of editing/proofreading, but the core material is done.

The D&D 3E Conversion
The classes are mostly finished and I'm working on the spellbook. Once that's done I still need to incorporate the weapons/armor sections (which are more-or-less already written as appendices to the monster book) and the encounter building document. I'm still working out some of the details as to how spells will work to hit the right "D&D" notes while remaining quick and easy to use.

S&S Saga 2.0
This is largely a set of notes at the moment. Most of the classes will not change in a big way, although I'm looking at shuffling the Scholar around a bit. I suspect that the spells will get a pretty thorough rewrite (and hopefully a few new additions) in order to simplify them a little further and get them a little closer to the "dark and dangerous magic" feel I wanted.

As for an exact timeline, I can't really say, it depends on how much work and family life interfere. I would guess that the monster book will be done by the end of October, and the others will be following sometime in November, but I wouldn't swear to it.

-The Gneech

 

[pukunui]

The Monster Book
This is basically written; it needs to be laid out and be given another pass of editing/proofreading, but the core material is done.

Oooh, a monster book. This will be for the S&S Saga?

S&S Saga 2.0
This is largely a set of notes at the moment. Most of the classes will not change in a big way, although I'm looking at shuffling the Scholar around a bit. I suspect that the spells will get a pretty thorough rewrite (and hopefully a few new additions) in order to simplify them a little further and get them a little closer to the "dark and dangerous magic" feel I wanted.

When I first had the idea of using the SWSE rules for a fantasy game, I was just going to take all the Force powers as is and reflavor them into magic, but I do like some of the other stuff you've included. Also, the Arcane Attack Bonus concept is pretty good too.

Here's a question (having skimmed through much of the 1.02 document last night): how would you do a crusading cleric/paladin type of character? I think the Jedi class would make for a good paladin or cleric, but I can't remember if you included one or not ... and it seems like magic is purely arcane -- there's no divine magic?

Also, why no "Knowledge (nature)"?

Also -- any plans to incorporate stuff from the new SWSE sourcebooks? There's some fantastic stuff in The Force Unleashed and some good stuff in Knights of the Old Republic as well (although, oddly enough, there's some material that's repeated in the two books).

As for an exact timeline, I can't really say, it depends on how much work and family life interfere. I would guess that the monster book will be done by the end of October, and the others will be following sometime in November, but I wouldn't swear to it.

Take your time!

 

[The_Gneech]

Oooh, a monster book. This will be for the S&S Saga?

It should work for all of my Saga Edition kitbash games, actually, S&S Saga included.

When I first had the idea of using the SWSE rules for a fantasy game, I was just going to take all the Force powers as is and reflavor them into magic, but I do like some of the other stuff you've included. Also, the Arcane Attack Bonus concept is pretty good too.

That was my original idea too, but I decided I wanted to do something that would take it away from Star Wars a bit.

Here's a question (having skimmed through much of the 1.02 document last night): how would you do a crusading cleric/paladin type of character? I think the Jedi class would make for a good paladin or cleric, but I can't remember if you included one or not ... and it seems like magic is purely arcane -- there's no divine magic?

I didn't include anything that was specifically a crusader, just because it didn't seem to fit the sword-and-sorcery vibe. You could certainly make a paladin-like character via warrior/scholar multiclass. (The D&D conversion includes paladins.)

Also, why know "Knowledge (nature)"?

I figured Survival would handle that.

Also -- any plans to incorporate stuff from the new SWSE sourcebooks? There's some fantastic stuff in The Force Unleashed and some good stuff in Knights of the Old Republic as well (although, oddly enough, there's some material that's repeated in the two books).

I've got the KotOR book but haven't read it; don't have FUCG yet, but I probably will before too long. If I spot something worth stealing, I'll definitely incorporate it; I looked at Threats of the Galaxy when working on my critter rules, for instance.

Take your time!

Thanks. FWIW, I'm writing these things primarily for my own use, so I want to get 'em finished quickly and keep my campaigns rolling! As soon as my current Red Hand of Doom 3.5 campaign finishes, all of my games will be Saga Edition-based.

-The Gneech