D&D 4E Forked Thread: Some Thoughts on 4e

[glitchwraith]

Apples and Oranges. Monster Knowledge checks indicate Race. They do not indicate Class. Just because PCs can figure out Race with a Monster Knowledge check does not mean that NPCs can figure out Class. Other knowledge checks might be an indicator to class, but why would this information be given out to all monsters for free?

If a monster made a Monster Knowledge check about a PC, he would know that it is a Dragonborn. How exactly does it know that the Dragonborn is a Paladin or a Fighter?

In 4E, Wizards can wear platemail. In 4E, Rogues can use the same weapons as any other class.

So, how does a monster tell if a Cleric shouts "Get them" or the Rogue shouts "Get them"?


Class is training or profession information. If classes can use the same equipment, how is it that a monster would reasonably know one class from a different one?

Answer: Common Knowledge is DC 15.

How exactly does a monster know that a Wizard cast a spell as opposed to a Cleric casting a prayer as opposed to a Warlock casting a spell if the monster does not make a common knowledge DC 15 Arcana or Religion check? Most monsters do not have these skills.

While this certainly is an option for deciding who a monster might attack, I think its overly complicates things to role a knowledge check for each monster before deciding what they do. Though I'm not that experienced of a DM, I would handle things much different.

First off, I would keep in mind the monsters general intellignece/mind set vs. the players outward apperance for the fight. I would assume that a monster of more or less human intellignece would be aware of class archtypes, and use that for identifying purposes. "Guy in robes is probably a caster of some kind." "Guy in armor probably a heavy hitter." "Guy with daggers probably a thief/scout." "Guy with symbol around neck/decorating sheild probably some kind of church affiliate." Assuming the players appear to be an average member of this class, these will identify most roles accuratly.

True, some classes may resemble each other enough to confuse the enemies, but if their resonably intellignet and observant, it doesn't take long to get clues. "This guy is carrying a wand and chunking fireballs, hes probably a wizard. Oh wait, hes screaming out blasphemous curses. Warlock." "This guy has a holy symbol, so either cleric or paladin. Judging by heavy armor and sword, probably paladin." "This guy has pretty good armor and looks tough, probably fighter. Oh wait, hes barking orders. Maby warlord?" "Hmm, this guy is hiding in the shadows. Rogue? Oh wait, hes got two longswords. Ranger."

Now, this is just a general guidline, but it isn't gauranteed to be accurate, and won't be used by all monsters. Animal-like or especialy dim monsters might not notice or care about such clues, and would just attack wichever one is closest/looks least threatening/looks tasty/ect. Also, the party might have characters that defy stereotypes, ie armored wizard, lightly armored fighter, ect. In such cases, the monsters might not figure out the role till its to late, unless there especialy smart or know enough about the characters personaly to know their style before hand. This way keeps the roleplaying in mind, but lets the dm use more sophisticated tactics in some instances.

As for the players, let them play how they want. So long as there not using knowledge that shouldn't be available to the characters, I don't see any harm in using metagamey tactics. Hell, when I'm a player, I can usualy find an rp reason for any particularly advantagouse action. Course, it helps when I'm picking powers that blend well with my characters personality, and it seems what powers you take determines alot of your tatical choices anyway.

(I know, I talk way to much for someone so new)

 

[Allister]

This may sound weird, but hasn't it ALWAYS been the best tactic in D&D since OD&D to focus fire on one enemy at a time.

Without the death spiral of doom, it always makes more sense to kill off one enemy completely right?

 

[Lacyon]

Even if that At Will power is common knowledge, it still takes a DC 15 skill check.

Do you make your players roll DC 15 checks to know which end of the sword to hold?

 

[Stalker0]

In 3E, rogues can wield greatswords. This hasn't changed in 4E.

Except for the fact that a 3e rogue weidling a greatsword was scary, while a rogue wielding a greatsword is silly (no sneak attack, and no rogue powers).

Weapon Restrictions....I so loath thee!!!

 

[Hypersmurf]

Except for the fact that a 3e rogue weidling a greatsword was scary, while a rogue wielding a greatsword is silly (no sneak attack, and no rogue powers).

Right - it's the opposite of the wizard, in fact.

The 3E rogue has a feat investment to use a greatsword, but after that, he's fine. The 4E rogue has a feat investment to use a greatsword... and when he does, it disadvantages him.

The 4E wizard has a feat investment to use plate armour, but after that, he's fine. The 3E wizard has a feat investment to use plate armour ... and when he does, it disadvantages him.

So a 3E rogue might spend a feat to use a greatsword... but most probably won't. A 4E wizard might spend the feats to use plate armour... but most probably won't.

A 4E rogue almost certainly won't use a greatsword, and a 3E wizard almost certainly won't wear plate armour, even though they technically could.

-Hyp.

 

[WalterKovacs]

Although ... at the very least, a Rogue may actually use a dagger now thanks to the +1 weapon talent feature. In 3.5, there wasn't a particularly compelling reason to have a dagger wielding rogue outside of being able to hide the dagger on your person, or going with some kind of prestige class. Normally it was either wire weenie [using the rapier usually with weapon finesse] or biggest weapon possible if they had strength.

Also, they have made a backdoor for the rogue weapon restriction with some of the Martial Power options. They are probably going to keep to a cap on the damage they can do, but they have the club as an option. [Interesting "street fighter" build at low levels ... there is a belt in Ad Vault that allows you to treat any improvised item as a club, so the rogue could use his fists and various objects he finds as clubs with his powers ... could be fun for going into places unarmed, bar fights, etc.]

 

[Shadeydm]

Did you even read what I said?

Is Common your first language or am I speaking Draconic here?

To make this painfully obvious to you, since you seem to unable to comprehend me:


Thank you for your irrelevant comments.

This kind of posting really isn't needed and casts a very unfavorable light on both yourself and these boards.

 

[Verision]

Deleted

 

[Rel]

Hey, Verision, I'm sure you can make your point(s) without being a jerk. So do that.

 

[Verision]

Hey, Verision, I'm sure you can make your point(s) without being a jerk. So do that.

Fine.